M5x and S5x over M20.. Why?

[varg]

M50 swaps are puzzling. You gain weight and very little power, I never understood the appeal. M50 turbo, sure I can get that a little, but NA M50? Come on.

Hell even the M42's. How come those are so bad to turbo? Everyone always jumps on the 6cyl swap but a M42 turbo that makes good power will out handle a 6Cyl

The M42 is pretty crap. I had one, turbocharged it, never really liked it. It always leaked, even after a complete reseal. It made all kinds of timing chain noise, even with new wear parts. The M42 has multiple serious flaws, and it's underwhelming even by 16V 4 cylinder standards. Who wants a 4 cylinder that falls off after 6,000rpm? Not me. It's hopeless NA too, for the amount of money people spend on doing NA M42 builds that make 150hp, you could swap in a Honda 4 that makes more power bone stock and won't kill itself spontaneously when the timing idler sprocket snaps off or eat its thrust bearing and crank walk.

How come nobody is talking about the N5X engines? those are the future probably.
America - LS
Japan - 2JZ
Euro - N5X

That's just my opinion though.

2JZs are overrated. Overweight lumps of cast iron that are only good for wowing people with dyno numbers or drag racing.

[Kershaw]

Why bother even turbo'ing it? The M20 is a very underrated engine and has proven time and time again to hold it's own. 230whp-245whp is now easily achievable while still having good road manners (and using 91octane).

However, I get that kids just want to do a "motor swap" because it's almost a right-of-passage for any gear head. To each their own, we are all friends here.

How much do you have to pay for that though? Because an m52b28 can be had for a $400, you can use stock chipped engine management, it bolts to the g260, m50 intake manifold, headers, and some half assed hybrid exhaust. Sure, you're not doing 230whp, but maybe you're doing 180whp with VANOS and that's what makes the difference. The car feels so much faster because it has 30 more hp at 2000rpm than an m20 and you spent maybe $2k?

230-245whp is definitely doable on an m20. I'd love to have that. But you're spending $6k on the motor, $1k on the exhaust, $1k on engine management, and $1k on tuning. Minimum. Now you have a $10k motor in a $4k e30. As the owner of 2 ixs, engine swaps aren't really that feasible for me, so if you think my numbers are unreasonably high, send me a PM, I have a motor to build.

[DBShiznit]

It’s been discussed throughout forums but maybe it was just people trying to steer others away because they couldn’t handle it themselves 🤷🏽waffles♂️


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[nando]

It’s been talked about and it’s fitment issues as well all the electronic components you’d have to add just to have a N54 run


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What extra stuff? It's almost the same as an S54 swap. The only extra addition for the N54 is the HPFP and probably the returnless fuel system (you're not going to want to run 5,000psi through E30 fuel lines).

N52 has already been done a couple times - it makes more power (stock for stock) than an S52 and weighs less than an M42..

[jeenyus]

The engine is beastly. Sounds better than all the other inline-6 engines I've heard too. I really hope the N turns into the new swap.

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[DBShiznit]

That just seems like the price to pay for those types of swaps though. Don't LS & 2JZ all need custom engine management? I bet there are solutions for that stuff these days.

To be honest I’m not sure but I’ve looked into it for my e36 and that’s the reason people walk away. However I do follow someone on Instagram with a N54 swapped e36


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[jeenyus]

It’s been talked about and it’s fitment issues as well all the electronic components you’d have to add just to have a N54 run


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That just seems like the price to pay for those types of swaps though. Don't LS & 2JZ all need custom engine management? I bet there are solutions for that stuff these days.

[DBShiznit]

It’s been talked about and it’s fitment issues as well all the electronic components you’d have to add just to have a N54 run


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[jeenyus]

M5X engines do have hydraulic lifters, and that's pretty great. I plan on puttin in a different power plant with time, but that's because of preference. I would prefer the older body type of the e30 with a more modern engine.

How come nobody is talking about the N5X engines? those are the future probably.
America - LS
Japan - 2JZ
Euro - N5X

That's just my opinion though.

[nando]

The funny thing is though, a basic M50 swap is hardly faster at all in reality than a decently running M20. I wonder how many weak M50s were swapped in because their M20 throttle or TPS simply wasn't adjusted to open the throttle fully or trigger WOT.

189bhp is easily within the realm of a pretty mild M20 these days. Also, no budget turbo is ever going to be 'reliable' - and M20s definitely can hold 500whp reliably, but it won't be cheap (and neither will a 500whp M50).

[DBShiznit]

I've seen people run 8psi on factory bolts and gaskets (as in not change them). It's really the factory headbolts that limit boost. Once you ahve ARP 12 or 15 is easily and safely done.

Ahh gotcha. Thanks for the info!


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[HerbE30]

I just edited my last post. Sorry for the confusion. I didn’t think you could run much boost with the stock HG


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I've seen people run 8psi on factory bolts and gaskets (as in not change them). It's really the factory headbolts that limit boost. Once you ahve ARP 12 or 15 is easily and safely done.

[DBShiznit]

Now you got me waffled. Is your engine fine or does it have issues?

Just run OEM gasket, it's what most people would do, and what I would do personally. For one major reason. The OEM gasket will throw/blow if you have a bad tune or issues. If you run MLS, you will throw a piston. (this is my opinion some may disagree). So unless you're familiar with tuning I would run OEM gasket. And don't run a thicker gasket <- that's when it would run sluggish.

Long story short. OEM gasket with ARPs will not change any performance and will be perfectly ready for boost when you are.

The rockers are 300 through Ireland Engineering, which is what everyone is using.

I just edited my last post. Sorry for the confusion. I didn’t think you could run much boost with the stock HG


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[HerbE30]

However you can add a set of HD Rockers which are like $300 if I'm not mistaken.. I've been reading A LOT on this since I plan on doing an engine rebuild this winter. I wanted to know what I needed to do once the engine is out and I'm thinking HG and APR studs but I'm unsure the car will run if I drop the HG even more. It'll probably be slow as a snail without the turbo being added right away.. So maybe I should just wait until I'm ready to turbo.. decisions decisions..

Now you got me waffled. Is your engine fine or does it have issues?

Just run OEM gasket, it's what most people would do, and what I would do personally. For one major reason. The OEM gasket will throw/blow if you have a bad tune or issues. If you run MLS, you will throw a piston. (this is my opinion some may disagree). So unless you're familiar with tuning I would run OEM gasket. And don't run a thicker gasket <- that's when it would run sluggish.

Long story short. OEM gasket with ARPs will not change any performance and will be perfectly ready for boost when you are.

The rockers are 300 through Ireland Engineering, which is what everyone is using.

[DBShiznit]

M5x and S5x over M20.. Why?

They are fantastic with extra air, m20s love it. 8.8:1 compression means ARPs and a new HG will let you push 15ish safely. Depending on the build that could net you around 350~ depending on a few factors.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=398552

I compiled a lot of builds here, I was really unsure what I wanted out of my e30 and reference these a lot.



In my opinion the weakest link of an FI e30 would be the rockers, and that's only a problem if you like to bang off the limiter.

However you can add a set of HD Rockers which are like $300 if I'm not mistaken.. I've been reading A LOT on this since I plan on doing an engine rebuild this winter. I wanted to know what I needed to do once the engine is out and I'm thinking HG and APR studs but I'm unsure the car will run if I drop the CPR more. It'll probably be slow as a snail without the turbo being added right away.. So maybe I should just wait until I'm ready to turbo.. decisions decisions..