Turning point for e30s?

[Julien]

Good point about the swapping of motors going back to the earliest days of the hot rod.

About Spec E30s time having come and gone, I disagree. Perhaps in other regions/climates where weather and time takes a harsh toll on everything that is true. Thankfully there are still enough E30s around in the Western USA (especially Cali) to attract/or maintain people who want to race. Combine that with the fact that some of the finest race shops in the country are located in our backyard means Spec E30s time hasn't passed. They remain a stable, reliable platform that won't break the bank. It's not uncommon to see 20+ cars in the Spec E30 field at a NASA NorCal event.

As for the E46, it's also a great car. It may be on the down slope now in the market. And yes, it will cost about the same as an E30 donor car. Where things differ is the cost to build and operate. It's more expensive. This Feb 2017 article featured in NASA Speed clearly spells that out.

https://nasaspeed.news/columns/class-syllabus/spec-e46/

I think lemons killed more e30s than spec, but maybe I’m wrong. Also, I want to say most of these died in accidents/rust.

[82eye]

if you really want to know where things are going you have to look where the cars are already rare and getting scarce.

cali and the southern states to a degree is a totally distorted market. those markets have always been the final place to be able to find cheap decent examples and the last to realize what was being lost.

imo the e30 is headed exactly where the datsun 510 went.

[tinoe30]

Oh it's no fad. It goes back to the earliest days of hot rodding, and it will continue. Spec E30's time to shine has come and gone, many E30s met their end in the racer's garage and now they're expensive enough that finding a nice car and hacking it apart only to have it get smashed up on the track makes less sense. This is nothing new, there have been plenty of cars over the years that were at one point common and cheap enough to race and destroy without much care and are no longer, this is the process of transitioning from disposable car to classic car.

There's always Spec E46, E46s are still on the downslope for resale value.

Good point about the swapping of motors going back to the earliest days of the hot rod.

About Spec E30s time having come and gone, I disagree. Perhaps in other regions/climates where weather and time takes a harsh toll on everything that is true. Thankfully there are still enough E30s around in the Western USA (especially Cali) to attract/or maintain people who want to race. Combine that with the fact that some of the finest race shops in the country are located in our backyard means Spec E30s time hasn't passed. They remain a stable, reliable platform that won't break the bank. It's not uncommon to see 20+ cars in the Spec E30 field at a NASA NorCal event.

As for the E46, it's also a great car. It may be on the down slope now in the market. And yes, it will cost about the same as an E30 donor car. Where things differ is the cost to build and operate. It's more expensive. This Feb 2017 article featured in NASA Speed clearly spells that out.

https://nasaspeed.news/columns/class-syllabus/spec-e46/

[Julien]

we should have a meat up at the shop and you all can motivate me to put the 323 driveline together :)

https://tenor.com/view/powerrangers-squad-turnup-power-ranger-gif-5144447

and i'm back next week :)

[kronus]

Sure! You still at Peter Pan?

we should have a meat up at the shop and you all can motivate me to put the 323 driveline together :)

[TobyB]

Huh.

I race a 2002 and an e30...

t

[varg]

one more observation..

Thanks to the fad to stuff bigger motors into E30s the cost of getting a decent donor car (especially a coupe) to build a Spec E30 race car has more than doubled in the last few years....

Oh it's no fad. It goes back to the earliest days of hot rodding, and it will continue. Spec E30's time to shine has come and gone, many E30s met their end in the racer's garage and now they're expensive enough that finding a nice car and hacking it apart only to have it get smashed up on the track makes less sense. This is nothing new, there have been plenty of cars over the years that were at one point common and cheap enough to race and destroy without much care and are no longer, this is the process of transitioning from disposable car to classic car.

There's always Spec E46, E46s are still on the downslope for resale value.

[lukeADE335i]

I dunno about USA, but there are alot of 318i cars going up for sale in Australia for ridiculous money. In Australia the 318i comes with the M40 engine (not the m42), i drove one once and it was not inspiring. I am really skeptical if any of these are selling for the asking price. like are people paying ~$10k AUD for a stock M40 car? I hope not.

I don't think those cars are selling to be honest, or if they are not for the money. I think they're listed by people who have seen a couple of very neat 318iS cars (with M42) go for slightly silly money and don't realise that a 318iS has a completely different driveline from their car.

Realistically a neat 318i with M40 is probably worth $5k tops - unless the e30 has suddenly become a bonafide classic now?

Been pondering if I was to sell mine, what would I list it for? There's a couple of M30 swapped cars posted on carsales.com.au for silly money - one $20k, one $25k, ie. e36 M3 prices. Neither of them look as neatly swapped as mine - but what would be a realistic price for a well maintained, reliable, basically factory spec car?

Will the period correctness of the M30 swap put it ahead of the M5x swaps as a classic in the future?

[Danny]

I mean, I've said it before and I'll say it again, if we didn't live in California with it's strict emissions laws I never would have swapped my car and I would have just done a turbo m20. I honestly miss how much easier the m20 is to work on.

[Julien]

Oh absolutely, would be a huge waist of time. I'm proud though of what I've built, I don't think most guys would have put the same attention to detail I put in. Also since they never offered e30 convertible M3's in the states hopefully I've built the next best thing :D. Btw man you need to stop by one of these days especially since you recently picked up another e30. Always nice to meet local heads.

Sure! You still at Peter Pan?

[KIRIEIW]

Right, but if your end game is to take the s5x back out and reinstall an m20, it seems like a pretty big waste of time/money for temporary power. Don’t get me wrong, s5x cars are hella fun, but if you’re building something that you want to appreciate with age, I recommend keeping the factory motor in there, especially if its a 318is/325is or mtech car.

Oh absolutely, would be a huge waist of time. I'm proud though of what I've built, I don't think most guys would have put the same attention to detail I put in. Also since they never offered e30 convertible M3's in the states hopefully I've built the next best thing :D. Btw man you need to stop by one of these days especially since you recently picked up another e30. Always nice to meet local heads.

[Julien]

M20B20 was easily my least favorite Euro engine, vastly preferred the M40. So, the way to add value to that car is to add B25.

Agreed, I loved my little 318ic/sohc. Slow but torquey.

[Julien]

I'm doing a swap currently on my convertible, putting in a S50. I guess it all comes down to how meticulous and caring the person is doing the swap. I knew I wouldn't be happy with someone else's swap work so I set out and started a swap myself.

Also a side note, everything I've done so far I'm proud to say is easily reversible, that's the good thing with M5x/ S5x swaps (unless some guys are really hacking these swaps together to get them running). I literally can't think of one mod I've had to do that changed my car permanently to the point of no return/ would never make it the same like the factory left it (disregarding the e36 steering rack swap). By this I'm referring to cutting holes in sheet metal, or any cutting in general, messing with wiring on the e30 harness side.

I'm not sure how other's are doing swaps but it's been damn near bolt in for me with AKG engine mounts and re pinning the e36 S50 engine wiring harness to "plug and play" with my e30 C101 body connector. It actually would be a bolt in swap if you didn't need to change the brake booster (which is basically a bolt in part anyways, I was still able to use my factory e30 master cylinder) and re pin the e36 engine harness. My point is it's easy enough to re install a M20 so long you keep it..

Right, but if your end game is to take the s5x back out and reinstall an m20, it seems like a pretty big waste of time/money for temporary power. Don’t get me wrong, s5x cars are hella fun, but if you’re building something that you want to appreciate with age, I recommend keeping the factory motor in there, especially if its a 318is/325is or mtech car.

[KIRIEIW]

I'm doing a swap currently on my convertible, putting in a S50. I guess it all comes down to how meticulous and caring the person is doing the swap. I knew I wouldn't be happy with someone else's swap work so I set out and started a swap myself.

Also a side note, everything I've done so far I'm proud to say is easily reversible, that's the good thing with M5x/ S5x swaps (unless some guys are really hacking these swaps together to get them running). I literally can't think of one mod I've had to do that changed my car permanently to the point of no return/ would never make it the same like the factory left it (disregarding the e36 steering rack swap). By this I'm referring to cutting holes in sheet metal, or any cutting in general, messing with wiring on the e30 harness side.

I'm not sure how other's are doing swaps but it's been damn near bolt in for me with AKG engine mounts and re pinning the e36 S50 engine wiring harness to "plug and play" with my e30 C101 body connector. It actually would be a bolt in swap if you didn't need to change the brake booster (which is basically a bolt in part anyways, I was still able to use my factory e30 master cylinder) and re pin the e36 engine harness. My point is it's easy enough to re install a M20 so long you keep it..

[roguetoaster]

So I should be glad that I've been too lazy to swap out the M20B20 in my bone-stock rust-free, Euro E30 and I can now sell it for the price of a 128 with Actual Air Conditioning?
But then I wouldn't be able to drive around making racecar noises and just barely not impeding traffic.
Hmm.

M20B20 was easily my least favorite Euro engine, vastly preferred the M40. So, the way to add value to that car is to add B25.