Which engine would you choose for a swap?

[varg]

Forgot to reply about my experience with Honda engines. My mom had a CRV with a K24A engine that I had the pleasure of working on every now and then. I didn't care for the design decisions the Honda engineers made with that. The transverse layout made it annoyingly awkward to work on and the engine developed a VTC problem that was difficult to diagnose. I replaced the common parts that would most likely be the culprit (strainer & solenoid), but the next step in the diagnosis was to tear the engine apart and inspect the timing chain, which was mostly likely stretched. It appears to be a common issue with those engines. On a Honda forum I read about people who had to have their engine replaced at very low mileage due to a stretched timing chain.

There were other things besides the engine that left a sour taste in my mouth such as a bearing that is pressed into the end cover of the transmission. It eventually spins freely and causes an awful squealing sound. It just doesn't seem like the quality is there with those cars. I think Honda reliability is nothing more than an urban legend.

That's a pretty bad one, and out of character for Honda, though in my estimation neglect probably played a part here. The K still has a good reputation and is better than an M42 by far. M42s were dying within warranty due to profile gaskets, there was a TSB on this issue. Multiple M42s are documented on the forums dying when the idler snapped off, imagine how many of the M42 cars in the junkyard over the years have been there because of that. Then there's the crank walk and the cracking heads.

FWD sucks, especially to work on. Not an issue when you swap an F or K engine into an RWD car. Honda didn't go from selling a middling number of cars in the US to one of the best selling brands because of an "urban legend" though. People aren't putting honda engines in all kinds of cars because of an urban legend. I'm not out here saying they're good because I fell for something or own one of the cars, I hate most of them. There are only two Hondas I'd want to own at all; the original NSX or the S600/800 coupe.

If had phrased it best "scoot her down the road to cost ratio" would that make you happy?

I literally ment cost, to seat of the pants feel ratio. (although once you add in all the other stuff you need, it's not as cheap as a $500 motor/trans, but ya - what good swap is???? :)

Ok, we can go with that. Yeah, it never comes down to a $500 motor/trans though. Especially when you're talking V8 swaps. It would be pretty dumb to just drop a $500 M60 in your car without first replacing all of the timing components and fixing the oil leaks, and those maintenance items just doubled the cost of the motor. Then there's the brake issue, and that comes down to more than money, sheer pain in the ass factor. The question is can you do an M60 swap without pulling a dumb stunt like having to replace the timing stuff with it in the car in a year for cheaper than a turbocharging an M20?

[george graves]

Bang for the buck? I'm still trying to figure out why anyone would go through all of the trouble of a V8 swap for an engine that makes <300hp, has next to no aftermarket, and limited NA performance potential.

If had phrased it best "scoot her down the road to cost ratio" would that make you happy?

I literally ment cost, to seat of the pants feel ratio. (although once you add in all the other stuff you need, it's not as cheap as a $500 motor/trans, but ya - what good swap is???? :)

[Andrew325is]

Forgot to reply about my experience with Honda engines. My mom had a CRV with a K24A engine that I had the pleasure of working on every now and then. I didn't care for the design decisions the Honda engineers made with that. The transverse layout made it annoyingly awkward to work on and the engine developed a VTC problem that was difficult to diagnose. I replaced the common parts that would most likely be the culprit (strainer & solenoid), but the next step in the diagnosis was to tear the engine apart and inspect the timing chain, which was mostly likely stretched. It appears to be a common issue with those engines. On a Honda forum I read about people who had to have their engine replaced at very low mileage due to a stretched timing chain.

There were other things besides the engine that left a sour taste in my mouth such as a bearing that is pressed into the end cover of the transmission. It eventually spins freely and causes an awful squealing sound. It just doesn't seem like the quality is there with those cars. I think Honda reliability is nothing more than an urban legend.

[Andrew325is]

4 cylinders FTW (S42)

https://youtu.be/fXUO4q92dQ4

[roguetoaster]

Someone had a SC on their e36 m42 around here. It wasn’t a bad looking kit, but the numbers were not super impressive. Can’t recall though if it was intercooled or not.


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SC (probably DASC) on the M42/4 is neat, and sounds cool, but not a great solution for actual power. Turbo is a superior option, but you might as well just swap to an M50 considering the SC power output.

[djjerme]

Someone had a SC on their e36 m42 around here. It wasn’t a bad looking kit, but the numbers were not super impressive. Can’t recall though if it was intercooled or not.


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[roguetoaster]

Concur on those costs, and it's one of the main reasons I plan to swap, providing I don't end up selling the car this year.

[Shangsta]

Timing chain shenanigans get pricey on M42s. I did enjoy my 89 318is with oe smf

Im with you I love my 318is but once you start doing big ticket items it really makes you question wanting to spend money on an m42. That being said I absolutely love e30's with 4 cylinder motors because it just feels so right so I am k swapping mine when kmiata is finished developing their swap kit

[Julien]

^
I'll admit that the M20 is a good middle ground, and that the M42 mod power/$ ratio is awful. But it's been somewhat entertaining, dead reliable, and easy to service for the decade I've had mine. Now that I'm in the odd position of only having two cars, having both of them with M42s rather sucks, and gets old. So if you only had one stock E30 it'd be an 325i sedan for sure, and if swapped, an M54 all day.

Timing chain shenanigans get pricey on M42s. I did enjoy my 89 318is with oe smf

[roguetoaster]

^
I'll admit that the M20 is a good middle ground, and that the M42 mod power/$ ratio is awful. But it's been somewhat entertaining, dead reliable, and easy to service for the decade I've had mine. Now that I'm in the odd position of only having two cars, having both of them with M42s rather sucks, and gets old. So if you only had one stock E30 it'd be an 325i sedan for sure, and if swapped, an M54 all day.

[digger]

When I had an M10, M20, M30, M40 and M42 all at the same time I still loved my M42 the most, but that M30 ran a very close second. But, you know, we're all crazy in our own special ways, so I say enjoy whatever you have until you don't love it anymore, then swap, either engines or cars.

sadly none of the stock engines are very inspiring, fortunately some respond very well to the right mods. sadly this is not really cheap but these cars are not about BFYB

it seems reasonable straight forward if a light nimble car is the goal the lighter (smaller engines) are the ticket and for more of the sledge hammer approach an m30 fits the bill. or for the best blend of both then an m20.

[djjerme]

Which of these 3 engines would you choose for a swap? M54, M42/M44 stroker, or S14

M30 is a weird juxtaposition. It’s an amazing motor in an e30 because such a broad power band, can be lugged down and r3v’d out to kingdom come, and it’s an easy swap done to death.

BUT, it’s a huge biatch. That lump really messes with the cars balance and you can definitely feel the difference in everything the car does. Not to mention there is some things that are huge PITA to do on an M30 swapped e30, like the clutch. And you do have to beat the sh*t out of the firewall to get it in there...

That all being said, if you want more power and keeping it simple (both positives in a racecar), then M30 is still a decent choice.


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[roguetoaster]

From my handful of years in the e30 world here is the list of people who love the m42(m44)

1. people who currently own one
2. people who own m40s
3. see #1 & #2


:popcorn:

When I had an M10, M20, M30, M40 and M42 all at the same time I still loved my M42 the most, but that M30 ran a very close second. But, you know, we're all crazy in our own special ways, so I say enjoy whatever you have until you don't love it anymore, then swap, either engines or cars.

[justinpirie]

I subscribed for a year then didn’t renew. Honestly I don’t think there’s enough content in GRM anymore.


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[djjerme]

That's funny, when my 318is was featured in GRM's 3 series challenge back in 2002 they said the 325i was the better car all around

they're wishy washy about cars some times. I only stay a subscriber because I bought in to the 10 year subscription deal they had a few years ago. Once that is done, I'm probably done with them. They seem to forget there is a western half of the US that does still race cars...