High Revving N/A V8 Engine Swap - Thoughts?

[purna97]

Hey all,

Hope you're having a lovely day. So the time has come for me to finally finish my E30 (see attached pictures) and give it the drivetrain it deserves and I wanted to hear your opinions on some of the options I had in mind.

So a bit of background, I bought an E92 M3 around 1.5 years ago, and despite it being such a great car, it costs too much to run (especially insurance with me being young) and so I'm looking at selling it to fund the completion of my E30 project. One of the things I loved the most about the M3 though was the high strung, amazing sounding, low displacement V8, and as crazy as it sounds, I'd love to put something similar in my E30. I'm not chasing outright power or torque, but honestly just want something special, fun to drive and something that sounds insane.

With that in mind, I actually have two ideas floating in my head that I think would be sick:

1. BMW S65 V8 engine out of the E92 M3, with possibly a forged 4.2L bottom end, dry sump and significant head work to get it revving up to 9000 rpm, or,

2. Ferrari F131 V8 engine out of the 360 Modena, which will be fully rebuilt with headwork to get it revving up to 9000 rpm as well

I've chatted to a engine builder in the UK who's had experience working on both types of engines and honestly given the work on both engines (with the S65 having a custom rebuild and dry sump, and the Ferrari engine needing a custom flywheel and intake to suit a front engine, RWD set up), they will end up costing roughly the same price. The Ferrari engine, being a flat plane crank, would sound more insane, but the BMW engine will make more power given it's displacement advantage (4.2L vs 3.6L). Overall both engines will make 400 hp plus and both are more than plenty for the E30. I've always been the type to only consider a BMW engine swap in a BMW chassis, but the Ferrari 360 was my dream car as a kid and it would be something so special and one-off. Also, note that I'm looking to mate both engines to a DCT gearbox with paddle shifters, as the engines are high revving and I'm not the biggest fan of shifting with a manual gearbox with that much power in a lightweight chassis. I currently have the manual option in my E92 M3 and love it, but trying a DCT would be nice too.

Both are obviously very expensive options, but this has been a project for so long and I finally want to build something amazing (and hopefully build something better than my M3 given that I want to sell it haha). So far, the car looks exactly how I want it (minus a respray that I have got planned) and so it's time to give it some power. Also, before you think it's sacrilegious to do anything to this car, the Tech I kit and all the interior goodies and BBS wheels were all fitted by me after I bought the car, and despite everything being genuine items, this isn't a factory M sport car.

So what are your guys' thoughts? Am I crazy and should I just stick to building a nice M20 in there (which it already has but could be better for sure) or screw it and build something special and unique? And also, if I were to do all this properly (i.e., make it look as factory as possibly as the car is too clean to destroy), would the cars value increase noticeably because of either engine swap or do you believe others wouldn't want something like this? I don't think I'll ever sell it once complete, but it's always nice to know what kind of value it holds.

Cheers,
Purna

[lukeADE335i]

Love your enthusiasm, and a neat looking e30 you have there. I’d be pretty reluctant to extensively mod (as you’d need to for this project) a neat M-Tech 1 like you have given where values have gone.

On the high revving V8, if running costs are too high on an e92 M3 because of the insurance cost, then wouldn’t a modded e30 with the same engine be potentially impossible to insure? Overall it will end up more expensive than the M3.

A while back we discussed the Ferrari F136 V8 as a potential e30 swap. Has the same flat plane crank as the 360 Modena engine and is available with a dry sump, but can be had relatively cheaply from a Maserati.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...motor-into-e30

[purna97]

Hey mate, thanks heaps for your response!

It's strange, but having a heavily modified E30 isn't actually too expensive to insure here in Australia, provided that the car is quite old and will usually be under some sort of historic limited registration (where you can only drive it up to 90 days a year). It's really weird when I first got quoted up on it, but for context, my M3 insured for $70000 AUD agreed value costs $5000 per year in insurance, whereas a high powered and modified E30 with the same insurance company for the same agreed value would likely be $1000 AUD.

Thanks for pointing me to that article, should be an interesting read! I've heard of that engine before, but always thought that the Ferrari versions were flat plane crank, whereas the Maserati's were cross plane (unless Wiki has it listed wrong).

And yes I'm a little reluctant to do an extensive modification too. It would be so easy to just slap in a nice M20 and call it a day haha, but there are obvious temptations to having a really cool drivetrain.

[moatilliatta]

A stock or bolt on E9X M3 is cheaper and more disposable than properly sorted and swapped packaged E30 with a stock S65, not to mention a 35K motor with short rebuild intervals..

Its fun to dream, but keeping things within their means will make obtainable goals a lot more joyful, Ie a complete car not on jack stands forever.. Don't let anyone stop you reaching for the sky though.

I like S62 daytona protoype motors, but I really enjoyed seeing those cars race. It would be my achilles heel into the V8 world.

[purna97]

Haha I get that! These options are definitely very day dreamer builds, but it's the ones that I'd be tempted to try and attempt, or at least price up if I were to sell my E9X M3. Having owned the M3 makes me want to see if it'd be cool to try something other than the M5x, S5x, LS swaps out there.

Also those S62 daytona race motors would be incredible!

[purna97]

Love your enthusiasm, and a neat looking e30 you have there. I’d be pretty reluctant to extensively mod (as you’d need to for this project) a neat M-Tech 1 like you have given where values have gone.

On the high revving V8, if running costs are too high on an e92 M3 because of the insurance cost, then wouldn’t a modded e30 with the same engine be potentially impossible to insure? Overall it will end up more expensive than the M3.

A while back we discussed the Ferrari F136 V8 as a potential e30 swap. Has the same flat plane crank as the 360 Modena engine and is available with a dry sump, but can be had relatively cheaply from a Maserati.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...motor-into-e30

Oh dude I had no idea you were in Australia too haha! Just saw your number plate on your car (nice E30 btw!), and realised it was from SA too. I've since moved to Melbourne, but the car is still in Adelaide at the parent's place.

Also, just FYI, the insurance values I just quoted were from Shannon's.

[lukeADE335i]

Thanks - yes, I’m in Adelaide. Club registration changes things a lot.

How handy are you on the spanners? Just for context, if someone else is doing it for you, Brintech charge around $25k for a basic M54 swap, which is straight forward by comparison.

The cost of getting someone else to do something like this would be astronomical.

[purna97]

Thanks - yes, I’m in Adelaide. Club registration changes things a lot.

How handy are you on the spanners? Just for context, if someone else is doing it for you, Brintech charge around $25k for a basic M54 swap, which is straight forward by comparison.

The cost of getting someone else to do something like this would be astronomical.

I'm generally pretty mechanically minded, but yeah this would be outside what I could do. Given the custom fabrication work and engine building involved, a lot of it will likely have to be done by someone else. Yes it'll cost a lot, but will be good to have it all done properly. I'm happy to attempt wiring things up like the gearbox, dash, ecu, and even try and learn the tuning/programming side of things, but definitely will need the help with mechanical installation.

Also fun fact, the starting price for an M54 swap with Brintech is now $35k, which is just a joke.... I know reputable shops that would do a job like that for $10 - $15k max.

[nando]

I mean, V8s are cool - but this car is much more original and far more valuable with an M20 in it. And you can certainly put money into an M20 and get something quite enjoyable.

The thing about these super spendy "ultimate" swaps is nobody ever keeps them for long. I think for good reason - it just isn't as fun in reality as it is in your dreams, and by the time you've done all the work and spent all the money, most people just get stick of it and want to move on.

Finally, the S65 is pretty heavy, parts are expensive and it's not exactly BMW's most reliable engine ever. It's been done before but again, nobody ever keeps them after they finish the swap and I don't think that's a coincidence.

[E30 Wagen]

I think nando hit the nail on the head. Crazy swaps like this are likely more entertaining to watch somebody else do than to have in real life. Value-wise, extreme engine swaps are best suited for a basket case rolling shell as cutting and fabricating parts of the chassis will tank the value, so start with something that's already at rock bottom.

I see your car is a 318i, is that with the m10? A built turbo m10 would certainly be a unique project these days and I think you'd be pleasantly surprised by it. A big plus for me would be preserving the weight balance of a 4 cylinder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQeYaQlbWE

[It's Soda Not Pop]

Or do a V8 swap just pick a reliable one.

[Victell]

Or one of the motorcycle-based V8s. 10k redline and keep the weight low.

[It's Soda Not Pop]

Or one of the motorcycle-based V8s. 10k redline and keep the weight low.

This would be wild

[It's Soda Not Pop]

Image if the engineers back in the 80's developed a small displacement V8 using the the M42 heads. 3.6L revs to 7500-7800. BMW E30 CS-R.

[lukeADE335i]

Also fun fact, the starting price for an M54 swap with Brintech is now $35k, which is just a joke.... I know reputable shops that would do a job like that for $10 - $15k max.

Lol... ok, that is a joke. I thought $25k was already over the top & their conversion parts are very steeply priced vs other options that are out there too.

Maybe they think they’re Kindigit (next step will be $200k builds).