my new nurburgring whip

[Massimo]

I have heard nothing but good news about JRZ VAC is selling them for the E30 now

http://store.vacmotorsports.com/jrz-...its-p2816.aspx

Get them then review them and entice me to get some.

Mind you this is not there race line it is a duel perpose coilover, still amazing non the less.

[Bimmerman325i]

I'd go with JRZ or Motion Control, and will do so when the M3's TCKs are moved on.

I've been less than thrilled with my ASTs, and know many many dissatisfied customers and outright failures. I'm voting with my wallet and going elsewhere.

Bimmerworld sells both JRZ RS and RS1 (cheaper single adj version) as well as the high end Motion Control stuff, along with VAC and maybe Turner.

[Eric]

In light of tonights presidential town hall debate, I noticed that much like a candidate that circles around a question and never really gives an answer; I often find nifty facts or important information that I'd like to retain, but I never actually write it down somewhere that I'll remember what I'm planning on doing.

So here is my goal. To compile most of the information I need to know about injectors into one post so I don't have to go back again and again to google...





I'm hopping to run E85 in my S50B30, which many people say you MUST use larger injectors for. My euro motor shares injectors with the E34 3.6L M5 (S38B36) (shares coil packs with the S38B38 which I find gee-whiz interesting), but runs a different injectors than either US S50 motors. These are the Bosch 701 "beige" injectors. I found some reliable information for just about every injector since Nicolaus Otto was tinkering with things on this site: http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

From there I found that my stock 701 injectors had these specs:

Part Number: 0-280-150-701
FLOW
lbs/hr: 21.5
cc /min: 226
grams /min: 162.5

Rating @
PSI: 43.5
BARS: 3.0

Flow @ 43.5 PSI / 3 Bars
lbs/hr : 21.5
cc /min: 226

.52 BSFC - Est. HP Duty Cycle
80%: 33.1
95%: 39.3

Feed: EV1
Impedance: High


Now, running E85...
http://injector-rehab.com/shop/e85_injector_size.html Says I should multiply my lb/hr rate by 1.47 because "the 1.47 number represents the difference between the stoiciometric fuel ratio of gasoline and E85. Gasoline is 14.7 and E85 is 10.0"

With that said, I should be running a 31.6lb/hr injector if I want to go E85. Something probably like this: http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/013us315-30lb/hr

Today I visited (bothered) Nick @ Mac Autosport in Parker CO. He's a bit nutty about BMW's which is always fun, but the shop had a bunch of cool cars of all different makes. On one of the cars, an insanely modded C6 Z06, Nick was showing me these tiny tiny injectors and kept calling them EV14 injectors. This term is new to me, so I googled EV1 (what the chart above says I have) vs. EV14. Well, Like Obama in the first debate... I got schooled!

I found a great thread on an RX7 forum here: http://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-.../#post10840069

If you've ever delt with RX7 owners, you'll know that they usually have to be a little bit insane or nuclear engineers to keep those early 90's rotary's running strong. They know their stuff.

To save you from the annoying W.O.W adds, I quoted arghx's posts below.

EVI:

(Bosch L-Jetronic Injection Manual)

Above is a diagram of an EV1 style top feed injector (old 80s Japanese injectors, like on the 2nd gen Rx-7, are similar). The valve is at the bottom. The geometry of the valve and the single orifice below it determines the spray pattern and the distribution of the droplet size.


Air assistance and injector diffuser plates can be used with this style injector to improve atomization. Mazda used both:


(1984 Rx-7 GSL-SE training manual)

These injectors come in high and low impedence forms. The low impedence forms have a faster response time. A high impedence injector is driven by a voltage-controlled or "saturated" driver. A low impedence injector can be driven by a saturated driver as long as a resistor is used to prevent the solenoid and/or driver from burning up. A peak-and-hold current-controlled driver can also be used to improve response times, but with greater expense and additional complexity.


(Toyota technician fuel injection training manual)

One of the biggest issues with this style of injector is that the valve is directly exposed to the operating environment. Operating temperatures and heatsoak conditions tend to cause buildup. This is a very old style of injector, but there were a lot of variations to it over the years--some were connected to engine-driven air pumps to improve atomization, some had some interesting nozzle designs ("impingement" injector), some used special plates to induce a swirl motion on the droplets. The pintle-type design fell out of favor back in the 90s as manufacturers moved to the multi-hole design, which the Bosch EV14 and the Rx-8 injectors use.

EV14

(Bosch Automotive Handbook 8th Edition, 2011)

The EV14 style has a ball valve and an orifice plate below it. The ball valve is more responsive than the older pintle valves. The orifice plate consists of a series of small holes--the number and arrangement can vary. The orifice plate design keeps the ball valve from being directly exposed to the operating environment, reducing the tendency towards deposits which can affect the flow rate and spray pattern.


(Bosch Automotive Handbook 8th Edition, 2011)



The spray patterns come in different arrangements. The two main categories are the single cone-type and the offset multi-spray type. To my knowledge the various EV14 vendors for the aftermarket are selling the single-cone style spray pattern. As you can see above, there are a number of parameters which determine the spray angle.

The single-cone type should be fine for a rotary application. One interesting question to me is, "What is the effect of Mazda's spray diffuser plates and air assist system on the droplets when using an EV14 injector?" A 4 valve piston engine is often better served by the offset type with dual sprays so that separate jets hit the back of the valves.


(Bosch Automotive Handbook 8th Edition, 2011)

You can see above that there are a couple areas of non-linearity in the injector flow, due to the valve lift profile of the injector. Mazda is already using multi-hole injectors on rotaries with a revised air assist system:


(Ohkubo, "Developed Technologies of the New Rotary Engine (Renesis)," 2004)

The EV14 style is designed for a saturated (voltage controlled) type of driver only. Peak-and-hold drivers have fallen out of favor on port-injection fuel systems, but they are now being used on gasoline direct injection applications. Typically an injection control module outputs about 60V to open solenoid-style multi hole injectors, then tapers off the voltage to keep them open. This style of driver allows multiple injection events per combustion cycle, and helps the valve overcome the much higher fuel pressures used in direct injection.

Well. What does that mean in english? What makes these new injectors better than my 18 year old Bosch 701's?

The biggest benefit to ev14 is that they maintain a linear flow curve down to very low pulsewidths. While the older factory injectors (mine) become unstable at very low pulsewidths, the EV14 injectors maintain smooth, even, and predictable fuel flow even when they are only being opened for a tiny fraction of a second.

Because they stay smooth and even, you can run a larger injector and still end up with a smoother, more predictable idle than your older, smaller injectors were able to provide.

Here is a pretty cool video of an InjectorDynamics 715cc/min injector on a high speed camera. The injector has a 5 millisecond pulsewidth, and the camera is filming at 1/100th



Now to summarize if your still reading... I'm going to see if it is possible to run an EV14 32ish lb/hr injector with E85 fuel on my S50B30. Next up, fuel pumps.

[Massimo]

Looking forward to update on EV14

[Eric]

:down:

[hoveringuy]

So here is my goal. To compile most of the information I need to know about injectors into one post so I don't have to go back again and again to google...

Interesting stuff.

Now if you can add information on injector latency vs injector temperature I'd be very happy. I have a theory that a primary mechanism for causing heat soak lean conditions is that the increased resistance in the coil windings increases latency.

[325ix]

Well, it looks like a car, kinda. You have some serious changes going on. Will it be ready for the track next summer.

[SpeedRacer85]

Nice alpine...

[Bimmerman325i]

Can you cancel the order and get jrz (or mcs if they do e30) from bimmerworld?

9 months is absurd. That is uuc levels of runaround.

[Eric]

9 months is absurd. That is uuc levels of runaround.

Well technically it they have had the struts for 6 months, but I was messing with other stuff before then.

Another open lapping day done with M5 since the E30 strut saga continues. Had a pretty good time in the M5 with the RS3 auto-x tires and recaro seat. But as much fun as it was, it's not E30, and I'm really annoyed with AST's timelines.



What was even cooler was driving Alex's (cloudbase) Mcoupe for a couple of laps. That S54 motor in that little thing is awesome!

[325ix]

This thread is really sad now that the E30 isn't running.

[knuklehead92]

any updates on this monster?

[Eric]

any updates on this monster?

Still waiting on AST/Vorshlag.

[318isbmw]

Still waiting on AST/Vorshlag.

That's quite the wait they've got going on. This whole switch from 4100 to 4150 has gone terrible for them.

[Bimmerman325i]

yup. Eric ordered the 5100s if I remember right, so those should have been unaffected by the change.

Sounds like AST needs more people or needed to not buy Moton...too much stuff for too few people.