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1984 325e Turbo Resurrection

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    #16
    First thing's first, the seized front brakes. Don't they look lovely?
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    You can see that I had installed a wheel stud kit at one point. I don't recommend this. The quality was questionable for such a critical component. Over the years the nuts rusted to the studs, effectively making them bolts again. This happened before I even parked the car to some of them. Anyways, don't bother. Just keep the bolts, I say.

    The tires were brand new when I parked the car, and the front brake pads were brand new as well, I think. Kind of a shame. The plan for this car is to do the e36 M3 front brake/hub swap, and the Z3M rear brake/hub/trailing arm swap. So none of this assembly will be used for this build. One of the last things I remember about this car was that with 1 bar of boost and 6,000rpm redline the stock brakes are very inadequate. Since I know I'm not using these parts, I was very liberal with the hammer and the pry bar. I was trying to be careful enough not to break the brakes, since I still need them to work well enough to move the car in and out of my garage, but not worried at all about dents or breaking off bits of the pads. Unfortunately I have no pics of them after they cleaned up. I was under the gun and didn't take as many pics as I would have liked. Suffice it to say: Pry off the calipers, take off the rotors, clean them up with a sanding wheel, actuate the calipers by pressing the brakes and then using a beefy c-clamp to reset the piston (this part is important: I bent a not-beefy c-clamp on the first caliper). I was delightfully surprised that none of the brake lines popped. I had to push the brakes pretty hard to break the front calipers free. This part of the job went easier than I feared, and actually at the end of the day I don't think I really damaged anything. This was the only thing I needed to do before shipping the car, so by the end of day one the first goal was achieved: It stopped, rolled, and steered.

    One final note on the brakes: anti-seize is a godsend. The wheels all came right off: None of them were stuck on. The caliper bolts came right out, the rotors and the retaining screw came right out. Besides the actual brake pads seizing onto the rotor, and the caliper piston seizing into the caliper, the rest of the assembly was very easy to work on. My advice: Always use anti-seize, the stuff is a miracle. Thank me later.

    Unfortunately, the rust situation was worse than I was hoping for.

    The driver's side wheel well sheet metal is almost completely detached along the full length of the seam. I'll need to basically pull the entire interior to fix this, since it gets pretty far up under the dash. This is the sort of thing where it's not safe to drive the car with this kind of damage, especially with a motor that makes north of 300hp (but your gonna have to wait a year or two before I have actual dyno results). The floor pan plug on the drivers side completely rusted to the point of detaching. The passenger's side is generally in better condition. New floor pans are pretty much top priority once it gets in my garage - well, after I pull the engine and send it to a shop for some professional treatment.
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    The rear jacking storage area is also pretty bad. This was already rusted through 10 years ago, and clearly it's only gotten worse. As you can see by the time I took this photo I had removed the antenna so I could cover the antenna hole with tape. Plus the power antenna was non-functional, so it's probably easier to ship the car with it removed.
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    This is a rust area I don't hear as much about on the e30: In the trunk, right behind the rear seat back. This is on the passenger's side. I'm not sure what that part is on the other side of the hole, but my guess is that it rubbed against the frame, then it got rusty, and rotted up from underneath. This is in the area of the rear axle, so I definitely need to pull the subframe and fix this before driving the car much. It would be a very bad idea for me to fix the motor without fixing the chassis: The chassis is all straight, as far as I can tell. It still seems pretty rigid, too: When the car is jacked up on one end, the doors all still work totally fine, everything is still lined up. But rigidity and strength are different things, and it would suck if I started putting major forces on this chassis and bending stuff. Much better for me to fix it now, before the turbo motor, big brakes, and big tires start stressing these parts...
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    Which leads me to the biggest problem area of all: the main structural rails behind the front suspension:
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    This giant hole is right under the driver's foot area. This is a main structure on the e30 chassis, and the rust here is really, really bad. When I discovered this I was really disheartened, and half thought that the car might not be worth it. I found this right around lunch time, and then my wife and I put our son down for a nap, and I had a bit of a heart-to-heart with her. I was like "I really don't know if this is worth it" and her response was right on point. She said to me "Nothing about this project is rational or practical. Don't think about it that way. Think about it like if this is the project you want to take on, if THIS is THE project car that will bring you the most joy. It's not about the money, or the time, or the practicality. It's just about whether or not this will be fun and bring you joy, or if it won't."

    And she's 100% right. I'm not doing this project because it's a "rational" thing. I already have a nice DD and another nice sports car. I'm doing this project to this car because I had a dream about what the e30 could be with some "resto-mod" touches, and this specific car not because it's rationally the right chassis or even the right base model, but because it's the car I bought when I was 19. It was my first "real" car that I chose (although it wasn't my true first car. that would be a 1981 VW Rabbit Diesel that was given to me after my cousin was done with it).

    Discovering this rust spot really changed the plan for the project though. It became very clear to me that I can't drive the car on the street until the chassis has a lot of rust repair done to it. I was hoping to fix the motor and then be able to cruise the car around while piece-by-piece doing all the mods I have planned, but this discovery changed that, and it's now pretty clear I'm not going to get the car where I want it without two tear downs. The first tear down is a partial one to fix all the big structural problem areas, plus swap in the big modifications and make sure everything is playing nice together: e36 M3 / Z3M brakes and 5-lug swap, 245 width (or bigger) tires, R134a A/C install, bigger intercooler, twin-scroll ball bearing turbo with twin 2.5" exhaust pipes, e46 M3 ABS/DSC, 3rd brake light install, rear head rest install, chassis reinforcements, power rear pop-out windows, under-seat subs - all or most of these things are going to require some changes to the chassis, and I don't think it makes much sense to try and do all those mods, AND get the chassis stripped and repainted in one go. I'm pretty sure there will be a lot of kinks to work out along the way, and the new plan is to get them all in place and working together before doing the final strip and repaint. This will also give me a chance to evaluate the chassis and suspension at a trackday (or a few) to see if there's a need for additional stiffening reinforcements, and just keep going through that process until the car is dialed in. Then, and only then, will it be ready for the "restoration" part of the project.

    Hopefully in the meantime I can get some decent color matched rattle-can lapisblau paint, so I can keep it kinda looking like a put-together car.


    TL;DR: The rust on the chassis was disheartening, but my lovely wife reminded me that it's an irrational project and I'm doing it because it brings me joy, not because it makes sense on paper. My closing thought for Day 1 of this trip is best paraphrased by Søren Kierkegaard: "Rebuild the e30 or don't rebuild the e30: Either way I'll regret it".

    The project is a-go!

    Comment


      #17
      After discovering all the chassis rust and getting the front brakes operational, things started looking a little more bright. My dad encouraged me to try and crank the car over, and I was adamant about not trying to start it for the plethora of reasons starting a car that has been sitting for so long can be a bad idea: Water in the oil, hydro locked cylinders, bad/dirty fuel, breaking the timing belt, all kinds of stuff.

      Anyways, we agreed to pull the fuel pump fuse and crank the motor just to see if at least that part of it would work. The e30 lacks a clutch safety switch for the starter, so being able to move the car with the starter motor can be very useful to get it positioned in a shop. We checked the oil to verify it looks good and not over-full, since over-full could indicate water in the oil. Overall the oil looked like it was changed yesterday, and was at the perfect level. I pulled the fuse, hooked up a battery, and cranked it for just a second or two: Enough to verify the starter works and the motor turns over. To our surprise, we all thought it sounded like the motor fired pretty much immediately. Mind you, this car has not been cranked in at least 8 or 9 years. I don't know when the last time was that the fuel pump pressurized the fuel system. So I pulled out my phone to take a video and decided to give the motor another crank:



      The damn thing fired right up! I did nothing. In fact I did an irresponsible amount of nothing. This was so unexpected I didn't really give a full check of the intake for mouse nests, or other debris. We didn't change the fuel filter or drain/replace the fuel. I didn't use my borescope to check the cylinders first. We just cranked it and it started up immediately and sat there running as if it was parked recently.

      Well now things seemed really exciting! After that video we discovered a fuel leak (which my dad set about repairing) and I got to work on cleaning it up to be shipped. If I had any doubts before the project was definitely a-go at this point. I will say that even though the engine has run for only a total of 2-3 minutes now, it seems to be running worse than that initial firing up. My guess is that the fuel is bad and/or dirt is clogging up the fuel filter and/or injectors. Ideally I would have done more to flush the fuel system first, but I'm not terribly concerned. The fuel lines all need replacing anyways, and the fuel pump (dual pump setup on this 1984 model) will probably be swapped to a single Walbro high-capacity unit before the vehicle is street driven again.

      That pretty much concludes the mechanical portion of the project at my parent's house. The remainder of the project was cleaning the car up to be shipped and make it at least somewhat presentable. First up the interior:

      The front cleaned up rather well. I always hated these seat covers, but the cloth on the front seats is completely shot, and admittedly: The covers did me favors for the car sitting for 10 years. Hard to see in this pic, but unfortunately the driver's seat rails are very rusty. Not sure what the plan is here for rebuild or replacing the seats.
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      The rear bench actually cleaned up nice. Unfortunately the fabric is so sun damaged the threads are breaking. Every cloth surface in the interior needs to be replaced. The rear parcel shelf is even worse, but I already have a parcel shelf from a later model car that I was planning on swapping in. Not 100% sold on doing that at this point, but it's an option. I'm mostly considering it because it will work better with power rear window actuators, but I'm not sold on that placement for the actuators.
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      Under the rear floor mats the carpet looks good as new!
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      Trunk is dramatically cleaned up. This was a disgusting mess. Still will need some love via steam cleaning or a pressure washer.
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      And last but not least for the interior: The glove box still has a rats nest in it, but at least it's my rat's nest!
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        #18
        And last but not least, the exterior got a quick wash. Unfortunately no time to polish the areas of the car that still have single-stage paint, but it at least looks like something worth restoring. Here I am washing it:
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        And a couple glamour shots. The r3v file host doesn't do my DSLR justice, I'll post links to a nicer photo album once I figure out where to host them.
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        Driver's 3/4. This is my favorite photo from the trip:
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        While nobody managed to get a video of the car driving, here's a quick shot of driving it back to the parking spot under it's own power. Since the engine might not have any coolant in it, I didn't have time to mess around with photos/videos whenever it was running (30-sec to a minute at a time).
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        And the last photo from the trip: Parking the car back in the same spot, but this time with a few additions to try and manage the moisture and creatures. While it should only be here for another month or two before I ship it out to my house, I wanted to do what I could to help preserve it a little better.

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        The next major update will be when the car is shipped to my garage. Aiming for ~September to give me enough time to get the space prepared and the car shipped.

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          #19
          wow, blue interior! I have the pacific blue also. Are your sport seats matching as well? Super jelly!!!
          Flickr

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            #20
            Cool! Yeah, it has the 0151 Pacific blue cloth sport seats. Both front seats are trashed though, hence the crappy covers. Reupholstering the seats is on my early to-do list, if only because I think the fabric is NLA and will probably be pretty hard to source.

            I always liked the interior on this car, so I'm going to try and keep it true to form. One goal of the whole build is to keep all the mods subtle at first glance, and the cloth sport seats are great to begin with. I wouldn't mind finding an e30 M3 rear bench, though.

            If I can't find the exact blue check pattern, I'll just go with something very close that I can find. I plan on replacing all the cloth, regardless.

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              #21
              Hey,
              I've shipped cars from SF to North Carolina for $850, so 2k seems excessive. Also, i'd buy a parts car/shell.. and just start cutting good metal and replacing yours. Best of luck with the project! If you were closer to SF i'd let you have my parts shell (4 door though)
              Build Threads:
              Pamela/Bella/Betty/325ix/5-Lug Seta/S60R/Miata ITB/Miata Turbo/Miata VVT/951/325xi-6

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Julien View Post
                Hey,
                I've shipped cars from SF to North Carolina for $850, so 2k seems excessive. Also, i'd buy a parts car/shell.. and just start cutting good metal and replacing yours. Best of luck with the project! If you were closer to SF i'd let you have my parts shell (4 door though)
                Where did you get shipping quotes from? Prices might be up right now, I hear the trucking industry has a driver shortage.

                Unfortunately I don't really have the space for a parts car. Gonna have to be junkyards, other folks, and replacement panels to Frankenstein it back together.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Fantastic!! Keep going!
                  Jon (OO=[][]=OO)
                  1992 325ic white, stock with a 5-speed swap
                  Palm Beach County

                  Comment


                    #24
                    That rust gives me the heebie jeebies, but fortunately you're in California where any parts sourced will be in great shape. Excited to see the revival!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Søren Kierkegaard: "Rebuild the e30 or don't rebuild the e30: Either way I'll regret it".

                      Something I contemplated earlier this year and came to the same conclusion.
                      sigpic

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by zwill23 View Post
                        That rust gives me the heebie jeebies, but fortunately you're in California where any parts sourced will be in great shape. Excited to see the revival!
                        For sure. I'm a little worried this is biting off more than I can chew, but I'm going for it! It just kinda sucks because this basically means the first thing I'm doing is saving up for a car lift and possibly a rotisserie. I have a very tight shop space and the rotisserie will make it a lot more manageable.

                        Since the plan for this car is to push a lot of boost and make a lot of other mods along the way, chassis reinforcements were always part of the plan. I figure it's not *that* much additional work to do the rust repair. I could be wrong. I'm fairly certain I'm going the chemical stripping route eventually, so that should make it easier to identify and fix all the rust areas.

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                          #27
                          That’s Tetanus-izing, But what a great paraphrase!

                          Søren Kierkegaard: "Rebuild the e30 or don't rebuild the e30: Either way I'll regret it".

                          Awesome you’re bringing back an old friend.

                          Keep up the literature, I love a cars story.
                          Last edited by moatilliatta; 07-16-2021, 07:02 AM.

                          I was up above it, Now I'm down in it ~ Entropy - A Build thread.
                          @Zakspeed_US

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                            #28
                            I guess this thread isn't going to die. At least not yet!

                            The car is safely in my garage. Woo hoo!!

                            The last few months have been a bit of a trip, mostly with my dad trying to get the car ready to ship and battling some intermittent engine running/not running issues, and me trying to help him from the other side of the country navigate the rats nest that my college-aged self thought was reasonable. I'm going to try and paraphrase the last few months into something of a coherent story. Here goes:

                            When I left my folks' place, the car ran, and ran fairly well, with basically nothing done to it besides pulling it out of the weeds, cleaning it up, and freeing up the front brakes, which were seized. I couldn't get megasquirt to connect, but it kinda didn't matter since it was running. The exception to this is that when I drove it back to it's parking spot for the rest of the summer, it stalled and wouldn't start again. This basically lead to a situation where my dad decided to try and get it running prior to shipping, in a nutshell, that went something like this:

                            First he replaced the fuel filter, drained out all the 11 year old gasoline and put in fresh stuff. Still didn't run. So he figured out there was an issue with some intermittent ignition. Sometimes the car would start and run, sometimes it wouldn't. He got it running really well at one point, enough to top off the coolant and let it get up to temperature, and actually verify that everything seems hunky dory. While it seems like the head gasket is still intact, since one of the head bolts is stripped out of the block it's presumably only a matter of time before it causes bigger problems, but for now it's fine.

                            Anyways, the day after he got it warmed up, he went back to having some ignition issues. While hunting for the problem (coil firing intermittently), he discovered that the aluminum case for megasquirt was positively charged. While this isn't 100% diagnosed, my suspicion is that the ignition coil driver was shorting out on the megasquirt case: My MS build has the BIP373 ignition coil driver, which is *not* an insulated unit and comes with a mica insulator. I always thought it was crazy that they included a metal screw with this assembly rather than a plastic screw. My dad insulated the BIP373, and the ignition coil seems to be firing all the time now. One problem (presumably) solved!

                            Unfortunately, once that was completed, the engine would run, but barely: it was super super rich now, and had basically now power. As soon as you let the clutch out it would stall, even at full throttle. No bueno. Unfortunately as it was now getting later into autumn and I wanted to ship the car before winter, I just had to bite the bullet and schedule the truck even with the car in intermittent/crappy operation. Unfortunately, when the truck showed up it had to be winched on. Bummer. That's a $200 surcharge for a non-running car.

                            Quick note about shipping cars: Apparently it's not necessarily standard practice for private car carriers to drop cars off at their final destination. I did not know this, otherwise I would have rented a car trailer. I'm pretty sure I was sold on a "door to door" service, but the truck driver said "nope" - can't drive an 18-wheeler on residential streets, which of course makes sense, but also I thought $1600 got it dropped off at my house ($1800 total with the non-op surcharge). Luckily for me the truck driver was nice enough to get as close as possible to my house, which was only about 5 blocks away. Not great, but much better than the walmart parking lot he planned on dropping it in.

                            He was apparently able to start it and back it off the truck, but once we tried to drive it, even on a flat road, it just died. So we towed it to my garage with my SUV, and were luckily able to get it up the small ramp into my garage without too much trouble.

                            So that was where last night ended - this morning I was able to make some progress diagnosing the issues - I was able to get megasquirt connected (yay!) and download the tune and read live data (double yay!). That lead me to quickly identify that the intake air temp sensor and throttle position sensor were both disconnected - this is obviously why the car was running so terribly: With the intake air temp sensor disconnected, Megasquirt thinks the engine is sucking in -40°F air, rather than +70°F air. This means it thinks a lot more fuel is needed than actually is, causing it to run super rich. That's exactly what the engine was doing - running so rich it was barely running at all, and had no power, even at full throttle. As for the throttle position sensor, this isn't usually a dealbreaker, but in this case it compounded the issue: Since the engine was running super rich, a smart thing to do is go full throttle to put the ECU in "flood clear" mode. For those that don't know, with most fuel injected vehicles, if you give it full throttle while cranking the engine, it will actually turn off the injectors to try and clear out unburned fuel from the cylinders. But without TPS, my car never got the message at full throttle to turn off fuel and clear the cylinders. Hence: more fuel in the cylinders.

                            All this unburned fuel in an engine that would kinda run, and presumably the effort from my dad, the car hauling folks, and myself resulted in at least two other symptoms: Overfilled oil that smelled of gasoline and according to my dad: significantly less gas in the gas tank. I'm not to worried about the gas in the tank, but the gas in the oil means it's time for an oil change sooner than later (although 11 year old oil needs to be changed, anyways).

                            Ok, so why/how/when did the IAT and TPS sensors get disconnected? Simple! When I put this build together, I just crimped on spade connectors and jammed them into the now-unused connectors for things like the air flow meter. The only thing holding them in place is friction, and there's not much friction. So when my dad was trying to diagnose the problem with the car not running, he disconnected these things. The IAT probably got knocked loose unintentionally, and the TPS he disconnected because he thought the plug was for the idle air control valve. I can't blame him for that one: he had no way of knowing that I never hooked up the idle air control valve! Again, this is a rats nest that just barely works.

                            Unfortunately after that, the car still isn't running. Through megasquirt, I can see that the ECU is getting all the signals it needs, but we still seemed to have ignition issues. The coil appears to be working, but the cylinders are only firing occasionally. This leads me to believe the problem is the wires, distributor or spark plugs themselves. My gut is telling me that some of the spark plugs are just completely fouled. I'd wager that 6 new spark plugs and the thing fires right up and runs mostly ok (maybe even runs good if all 6 cylinders have good compression). The distributor is probably also playing a role: it's visibly worn. So that's what's next: With a bit of luck, tomorrow will see a new distributor and some fresh spark plugs, and hopefully a running engine.


                            No pics today, I'll try to share some soon!
                            Last edited by atmh; 11-29-2021, 11:41 AM.

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                              #29
                              Yesterday I was able to confirm my suspicion: 6 new spark plugs plus a new distributor rotor and cap, and the car fired right up! Seems to run great on all 6 cylinders. Idle is rough, but I'm guessing the injectors are a bit fouled as well, and it might take some time for them to clean up. But with that said, I'm not planning on actually letting the engine get up to temperature until I at least change the oil.

                              I also did a compression test, and the results are OK for an engine with 300k miles (did I mention this block has 300k on it? Yeah.) Anyways, Cylinders 1 and 6 were both a bit low, 121 and 124psi respectively. The rest were all between 130 and 140. That's a 13.5% difference. Ideally an engine has less than 10% difference between the cylinders on a compression test. So not great, but also it's fine. 120psi is great, actually. The car has an MLS head gasket and a "2.7i" eta block+i head motor, which is only ~8.3:1 compression ratio. In fact, I'm not even sure how the compression test is higher than 122psi since 14.7psi * 8.3 = 122. Maybe there's a lot of carbon buildup from running stupid rich! (Addendum: actually it makes sense. A piston compressing air can be modeled as an adiabatic process, which means that as the volume gets smaller, the temperature will go up, meaning the pressure goes up exponentially, not linearly. A quick internet search confirms that the temperature can be +200°F and pressure of ~300PSI for a perfect system with a 9:1 compression ratio and no mass or energy loss to the surrounding system. So yeah, 140psi makes sense for the slower compression speed of a cranking engine, plus valve overlap, blow-by the piston rings, heat loss to the combustion chamber walls, etc.)

                              With the engine running decently, and the head gasket apparently HODL this state of affairs leaves me with a bit of a conundrum -it's a good problem to have- but now I don't know what my next steps are. I was planning on tearing the motor down and at least fixing the stripped head bolt threads, and throwing in ARP studs, but I also don't want to get too deep into the motor right now - not super interested in rebuilding either the head or the block before sorting out the rest of the car. Eventually I probably want a head that has the water jackets welded, and probably plane both the block and the head, and maybe o-ring the block, but I don't think I want to sink that much time and energy into the engine with the whole car needs a lot of love.

                              At the same time, I don't really want to be tempted with a good running motor when the chassis needs so much love and rust to repair.

                              My thought right now is to take the win - probably just replace the timing belt and change the oil, and leave the motor internal stuff for after I complete safety critical repairs - suspension, chassis, and brakes, plus start cleaning up the wiring and organizing the engine bay in a way that's not complete chaos. Basically I'm realizing right now that I can piecemeal this project more than I originally planned: take on one subsystem at a time rather than tear the whole thing down and do it all at once. I think I might enjoy doing it piecemeal a bit more. I've also been really thinking about how clean I want it to be, and the answer is... maybe not that clean. Cars that are clean with fresh paint and de-cluttered engine bays are great and all, but I think I'm just not that motivated. At the very least, I don't find that part of car building to be *fun* and this project is supposed to be all about *fun*. I can have the car up and running much faster if I just don't worry too much about the cosmetics. once I'm done with everything else and have the car sorted out, maybe I'll paint it then- or maybe not! Ratty cars are their own look, and one of my favorite hobbies was driving this car on dirt roads - would I really want to do that if it had a fresh coat of paint? No. The answer is no.

                              But that still leaves me with a big question: Where to begin?
                              Last edited by atmh; 11-29-2021, 01:35 PM.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by atmh View Post

                                But that still leaves me with a big question: Where to begin?
                                Step 1: Take some pics
                                Step 2: Change the timing belt and oil
                                Step 3: Drive it.

                                From there, I’d probably unfuq the rats nest and start gameplanning the other headaches to deal with.
                                Simon
                                Current Cars:
                                -1999 996.1 911 4/98 3.8L 6-Speed, 21st Century Beetle

                                Make R3V Great Again -2020

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