ITB's on a 24v project, Dyno results Post 136!!!

[ForcedFirebird]

Why is the manifold adapter so long?

Fitment and Jenvey's 1/4-century experience in making manifolds and throttles (for some very high-up racing teams as well as the public).

They have found that lengthening the runners doesn't hurt power, only increases torque.

EDIT: Overall length of the system is what's important. Good read for you here: http://www.emeraldm3d.com/articles/e...length-intake/

[The Dark Side of Will]

Getting the throttles as close to the valves as possible is what's important for throttle response.

I know that the overall length of the runners is important for both the peak power number, peak power RPM and the shape of the curve.

I was thinking that they could have cast a very short manifold adapter, bolted very short throttles to it and then made up the required length with tubes, horns and stacks. The throttle plates would end up 6"+ closer to the valves. The tubes upstream of the throttles could be curved to fit under the hood and then accept their standard array of stacks, horns and airboxes.

That's a nifty link. I figured there had to be some sort of adjustable trumpet on the market for dyno development... just like slip fit collectors for header development.

[Nisse Järnet]

The test car is using stock injectors. With the 413 red label ECU and green injectors we have taken a 24v to 223whp.

These are being tested on a very high mileage stock m50 - the PEAK gains we see next week will probably not impress, but we are confident power under the curve will be significant.

Sorry i explained a little poorly, i meant the distance between the injectors :)

[ForcedFirebird]

Getting the throttles as close to the valves as possible is what's important for throttle response.

I know that the overall length of the runners is important for both the peak power number, peak power RPM and the shape of the curve.

I was thinking that they could have cast a very short manifold adapter, bolted very short throttles to it and then made up the required length with tubes, horns and stacks. The throttle plates would end up 6"+ closer to the valves. The tubes upstream of the throttles could be curved to fit under the hood and then accept their standard array of stacks, horns and airboxes.

That's a nifty link. I figured there had to be some sort of adjustable trumpet on the market for dyno development... just like slip fit collectors for header development.

The whole manifold is only 6" long. If you look around a single vanos engine, you will see how difficult it would be to stuff linkage and a throttle shaft in the area the solenoid resides. Trust me, this was a long process wasting castings to perfect. (http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...psfb8b7e9d.jpg)

EDIT: These are on my car, believe me, there is no issue with throttle response ;)

Sorry i explained a little poorly, i meant the distance between the injectors :)

Yes. In fact, the stock fuel rail can be used if one so desires. This eliminates the need for an external pressure regulator, but the kits come with the aftermarket fuel rails, injector connector extensions, linkage, TPS and throttle cable.

[ck_taft325is]

Wait, so your initial run was on a high mileage M50 and rewarded 223?

[ForcedFirebird]

Wait, so your initial run was on a high mileage M50 and rewarded 223?

No. Misunderstood the previous question and was stating the stock green injectors will support 220+whp. These are going on the dyno early this week - we will be creating an Alpha-n MAF delete chip and seeing what kind of gains can be had.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The whole manifold is only 6" long. If you look around a single vanos engine, you will see how difficult it would be to stuff linkage and a throttle shaft in the area the solenoid resides. Trust me, this was a long process wasting castings to perfect. (http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...psfb8b7e9d.jpg)

EDIT: These are on my car, believe me, there is no issue with throttle response ;)

Throttle response will certainly be better with this setup than with any plenum-type manifold. No doubt.

Did your shop do the test muling for the casting prototypes?

[ForcedFirebird]

Throttle response will certainly be better with this setup than with any plenum-type manifold. No doubt.

Did your shop do the test muling for the casting prototypes?

Yes. The US rep for Jenvey is local and we asked them to make these. Traded my wife's mini van for an e36 just for these lol. We are in the design stages for m20 kits, they already made some for the m10 (guess they are popular in the UK)

Here you can see the first casting being test fit last summer...

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1365536&postcount=127

[The Dark Side of Will]

Yes. The US rep for Jenvey is local and we asked them to make these. Traded my wife's mini van for an e36 just for these lol. We are in the design stages for m20 kits, they already made some for the m10 (guess they are popular in the UK)

Here you can see the first casting being test fit last summer...


http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showpos...&postcount=127

Cool.
I understand that sometimes it just won't go where you want it to go.
But I also would have thought Jenvey of all companies would have options to put the linkage in the middle of the array or other such tricks to accommodate potential packaging conflicts.

[ForcedFirebird]

They could make custom units, but these are off-the-shelf throttle bodies (hundreds of them in stock). We wanted them to be affordable as far as aftermarket ITB's go. Also, as the pic suggests, there's very little room down close to the head, would be some trick setup to get 45+mm throttles in there.

[Nisse Järnet]

The whole manifold is only 6" long. If you look around a single vanos engine, you will see how difficult it would be to stuff linkage and a throttle shaft in the area the solenoid resides. Trust me, this was a long process wasting castings to perfect. (http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/q...psfb8b7e9d.jpg)

EDIT: These are on my car, believe me, there is no issue with throttle response ;)



Yes. In fact, the stock fuel rail can be used if one so desires. This eliminates the need for an external pressure regulator, but the kits come with the aftermarket fuel rails, injector connector extensions, linkage, TPS and throttle cable.

Ok cool, i might get itbs on my M50 turbo :)

[ForcedFirebird]

Ok cool, i might get itbs on my M50 turbo :)

The throttle bodies are tested to 6bar :)

[Nisse Järnet]

The throttle bodies are tested to 6bar :)

I think im ok with that :D

[digger]

you get a better transition from round to oval with a longer manifold adapter. which is less likely to upset airflow especially given proximity to where fuel is injected

how does the cross section vary compared to stock M50 manifold? ie what is the equivalent runner diameter for the plastic OEM at the start and end of runner and for this setup? also how does the length compare for both?

[Bimmerman325i]

Very curious, pending results. Is the test motor/intake/exhaust 100% stock for good benchmarking?

How does idle control work with these?

What are you doing for a plenum / airbox?

-E36 guy, want a setup like this for Nasa TT build on S50.