does faith make you a better person?

[markseven]

Can someone explain this to me?

If you are tempted by the devil, and you do right by him... why are you punished by him when you get to hell?

Cause he's a liar!

[Ral]

here's something to think about. A large majority of charities were founded, and continue to be run, by religious organizations. Religious conservatives are the highest-donating segment of our society. It provides a morality structure while younger, and a direct incentive to strive to be a better man. In short, it provides a framework for those who would choose to have faith to communicate with and honor a God they believe in. While most on this board would decry the very idea of "missionary" work, many third-world countries are better off today because religious groups came and brought not only their religion but modern technology and methods.

Religion is not the end-all-be-all of faith. Think of it like a training program, or lattice for a vine to climb. If men were perfect, it would not be needed. But, because men are not perfect, it is needed. So, why would you decry the structure for men to use because men themselves fall short, or use it to their own ends? To draw a parallel, Government in itself is a good thing, but in the wrong hands or used the wrong way it is destructive. Don't blame the idea of Government, but those who fall short of the ideals of it.

For those who think that religion is the cause of, or major contributing factor to, violence throughout history, look at communist/fascist societies that did away with te idea of "religion" or changed it to place themselves at the pinnacle: the Holocaust, the tragedies that occurred during Stalin and Lenin's takeover of Russia, Chinese civil rights violations, etc. People are naturally violent. Religion (generally) provides a buttress to that.

[Nic01101011]

the devils a mothafuckin liar.. so you know i aint worried BEEYOTCH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwsWskgKe5E

[Wh33lhop]

I rest my case.

[Mr Two]

You're right, there is a difference between "Theory" and "Hypothesis". Apologies for using the wrong word.

I guess whichever side of the table you're sitting on depends how you view the other. I'm not one to dismiss the big bang except for the lack of actual fact, the same as some dismiss the presence of (a) God due to a lack of factual evidence of said God.

I don't see how ID is not a rational idea in terms of the Scientific realm. Care to explain your dismissal of a possible avenue of reasoning in science that current hypothesis' cannot explain? No more so than "crystals" that spawned a certain genetic structure via molecules lining up juuuuust right to create the first cell. Rinse and repeat. How is that not laughable in the slightest. Give me one idea of where it all started at.

When did I say the planet was created in seven days? My issues with the Big Bang are not the Big Bang part. It's the illusion of what preceded the Big Bang. All these researches and studies done on it and not one can point in any GENERAL area (that's not hysterical) of where it all began. I'm not trying to argue Christianity Vs. Atheism, or anything else of that nature.

I'm not against the Big Bang. Just the conclusions that it's where everything began. Logically, this doesn't follow as there was obviously shit there to start the whole thing in motion.

For your first point - the difference here is Big Bang theory is backed by a lot of hard evidence, whereas your belief in god is backed by none. You're also making the mistake of thinking that Big Bang Theory explains the first cause, which it does not. It describes how our universe came into being, but not anything before that. Currently all we can do is speculate on that point. I can claim that a giant lizard being created the Earth in seven days, and it would have the same validity as the claim that it was god. You cannot prove what I said was wrong - but it is illogical to believe in such a claim simply because an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence - something neither religion nor the lizard hypothesis I just whipped up have.


ID is not scientific. At all. It has no place in a science classroom. Go read up on the Stokes case. As far as the formation of life, go look up the Miller Urey experiment. We were able to create amino acids in conditions thought to be like those on early Earth. Amino acids are the basic building blocks of life. As far as evolution is concerned, look at Nylonase. There is a strain of bacteria that evolved to be able to digest Nylon, which is man made. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming.

Does there have to be a first cause? If one claims that god was the first cause, who created god? Where did he/she/it come from? If the answer is "god always was", why can't the same arguement be applied to the universe? Anyway, if you're interested in the origins of the universe, watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo


@Ral - Hitler saw religion as a tool for control. With all the violence caused by religious beliefs - the Crusades, the conflicts between Jews and Muslims in the Middle East, the Inquisition, ect, ect. I mean fuck, Bush thought the war in Iraq was a holy war that he was waging on behalf of Christianity - the only conclusion you can make is that humans are violent, and religion does nothing to change that.

[markseven]

I rest my case.

:giggle:

[Massive Lee]

Christianity is a business. A tax-free business. They were within most European governments until a century ago, and still very wealthy. Still extremely powerfull busines within the US. Thanks for asking.

There are many good Christian souls doing a lot of good work. But they do it for free while the "bosses" get richer and richer. They sure have faith in their bank acount, and in ours to feed the bank accounts.

Data is now 20 year old. Imagine now.

" "The Vatican has large investments with the Rothschilds of Britain, France and America, with the Hambros Bank, with the Credit Suisse in London and Zurich. In the United States it has large investments with the Morgan Bank, the Chase-Manhattan Bank, the First National Bank of New York, the Bankers Trust Company, and others. The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc. At a conservative estimate, these amount to more than 500 million dollars in the U.S.A. alone.

"In a statement published in connection with a bond prospectus, the Boston archdiocese listed its assets at Six Hundred and Thirty-five Million ($635,891,004), which is 9.9 times its liabilities. This leaves a net worth of Five Hundred and Seventy-one million dollars ($571,704,953). It is not difficult to discover the truly astonishing wealth of the church, once we add the riches of the twenty-eight archdioceses and 122 dioceses of the U.S.A., some of which are even wealthier than that of Boston. "

[Mr Two]

Lee, I have the sudden urge to buy a BBK from you

[TheB1G Lebowski]

If someone knows they won't be punished for bad acts or rewarded for good acts in the afterlife because they don't believe in such things, and yet still do good acts and tries to be a good person, are they not better than someone that does good out of fear or hope for a reward of some kind?

No why would it be different? Faith puts hope in people, faith can make someone stronger mentally, faith puts faith in people. People who do believe and make the effort to live the life and help people the way they are taught makes them a better person for being a human and caring for others. But as far as being better than you or anyone else if you have that mentality as a Christian or other announced faith then you arent doing it right.

[Massive Lee]

Lee, I have the sudden urge to buy a BBK from you

Just be my friend. I won't charge you for that... ;)

BTW The financial numbers stated above partially explain why the Christian church prefers to pay out when their priests and bishops get trialed and convicted of rape and pedophilia instead of cleaning the whole instituition from its pedophilic priests. Why make changes when the money making organization works soooo well? So much is at stake.

From the first days, Christians were a parallel group/government. Romans had the law, Jews were the merchants at the temple. A proper equilbrium. Until Christianity emerged. While it grew, it became better organized and fight for power was never so evident than during the Great Inquisition when the Roman Catholic church made an "hostile" take-over over the other semitic religions. Starting with the Muslim in Jerusalem, the Jews in Europe and the other Christian variants within the same house....

[nando]

Christianity is a business. A tax-free business. They were within most European governments until a century ago, and still very wealthy. Still extremely powerfull busines within the US. Thanks for asking.

There are many good Christian souls doing a lot of good work. But they do it for free while the "bosses" get richer and richer. They sure have faith in their bank acount, and in ours to feed the bank accounts.

Data is now 20 year old. Imagine now.

" "The Vatican has large investments with the Rothschilds of Britain, France and America, with the Hambros Bank, with the Credit Suisse in London and Zurich. In the United States it has large investments with the Morgan Bank, the Chase-Manhattan Bank, the First National Bank of New York, the Bankers Trust Company, and others. The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc. At a conservative estimate, these amount to more than 500 million dollars in the U.S.A. alone.

"In a statement published in connection with a bond prospectus, the Boston archdiocese listed its assets at Six Hundred and Thirty-five Million ($635,891,004), which is 9.9 times its liabilities. This leaves a net worth of Five Hundred and Seventy-one million dollars ($571,704,953). It is not difficult to discover the truly astonishing wealth of the church, once we add the riches of the twenty-eight archdioceses and 122 dioceses of the U.S.A., some of which are even wealthier than that of Boston. "

while this information may be true, I hope people don't take it as evidence of some grand conspiriacy (which it no doubt was used for 20 years ago). Anyone who has billions of dollars of assets is going to have investments in large insititutions. If they don't, they are foolish.

[nickpdx]

"'Matter flows from place to place and momentarily comes together to be you, some people find the thought disturbing, but I find the reality thrilling."

Religion is merely a means of controlling people and profiting off their fear of the unknown.


:giggle:

[silversleeper]

Belief in a God, or other supernatural force/being/idea doesn't make you a "better" person. That "better" that you speak of, is what you make it.

I personally think that most believers of God are either those that grew up into the religion and know no better, or those that found the religion and found that it helped them with their lives.

I don't think there is a clear line between what is right and wrong, but I think anyone with commen sense should be able to make a good decision in whatever dillema they may have. Some people find the need for God's "guidance" in these matter, so more power to them.

As for it making anyone better than another, that is false. You would need to take a look at the bigger picture and define the meaning of being a "better" person. That I believe varies from individual to individual. Everyone expresses emotions such as sadness, happiness, jealousy, hatred, etc. That is the human condition.

If someone experiences some of the "bad" emotions more than another person, well there maybe other contributing factors in that persons life that maybe the cause of the redundancy of those emotions. Believing in something greater IMO is the creation of a false sense of hope, a false sense of "happiness". More or less an emotional bandaid.

There really is no clean cut answer to your question bro... Just some of my two-cents.

[Lof8]

Its great that some people use "faith" as a means or a motivation to be a good person.

However, there are enough examples of absolute evil in this world that God either does not exist or is not "all powerful" as described.

I do my best to be a positive and moral person, but not for any God.

[Mr Two]

If any of you are interested in our understanding of the universe, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo