So Virginia bans O-Care

[ck_taft325is]

If they had come out with that in instead of just playing "let's derail everything and see how far we can divide our country" then it very well could have been a reality by now. Given how the last decade went, I doubt they would give it a shot even if obama's does go down in flames.

And yet, that's all they have been saying for awhile. These issues are big NOW. Not in the past decade. While yes, these then growing issues should have been addressed, they are being delt with now. I'm all for reform just not what's being given out as the salvation and betterment of our country now.

[BenM]

shut the fuck up.

you know how much i pay for health insurance? $ 80 a month.

if its so important to you, why dont YOU fucking buy it.

See sig for response.

[z31maniac]

This fucking nonsense is why we are in such a mess. You probably also think we have the best healthcare system in the world.

Let me tell you something, as someone who does have a good job with a perfectly great plan, if I happen to wind up with a long-term illness or injury the first fucking thing I'm doing is moving to Switzerland or Japan, where I'll actually stand a chance of being able to pay all the bills.

And if you think your insurance plan isn't already "paying for everyone else's insurance" or that it's no contradiction to bitch about entitlement programs and then also bitch about medicare funding being cut.. then I suppose there is no hope.

I hope people feel patriotic by derailing what started as a great idea that might actually make the nation's workforce competitive.

I'll start with this one and say, I pay for Long Term Disability insurance.

Do I want to pay for it? No. Do I just in case? Yes. Again, I'm willing to make the monetary sacrifice, if you aren't, why should I spend even more of my money because you don't want to spend yours?

I guess someone has never seen what it takes to become a Citizen in a foreign country. Switzerland is about the most difficult place to gain Citizenship.

[mikeedler]

So you want them to mandate Health Care Insurance of some sort? MUST have. Illegal not to have? Then, you want them to tell the population what they have to live like or else suffer penalties?

Bet the world looks so small from way up there on your high healthy horse. Since when did personal responsibility become the job of the Government, people? When? I'm confused when this occured. Seat belts are smart. But it's not the Government's job to make me wear one for "my own good".

I am not all that up to date on the whole Obama health care thing but........
I live here in Germany, pay 14% of my wages for health care -like everyone- and 10 euros every 3 months-- that covers me, wife and all of the kids I want. Doesnt seem too bad to me- and it covers ALOT- braces, glasses, all that jazz.

with your question above-- I remember there was a time when vehicle insurance was not required--- I am sure you would be happy that "everyone" has to have it when someone sideswipes your car.

honestly I dont know which is better, but its not too bad when you know your covered-even when I am visiting family in the U.S. and something would happen.

[z31maniac]

Mike, just curious if that is 14% of your gross or net pay?

Granted I don't know exactly what my employers portion of my health insurance is, but I know that my personal contribution is on the order of 2.9% of of my net pay.

[quickervicar]

Everyone who drives is required to carry car insurance in this county. Many, many people do not. When they are in an accident they simply run. Who pays for it? All the honest people. I see no difference whether talking about mandating car insurance or health insurance. Those that choose not to pay for it will still leave everyone else to pay for their bill.

My city used to have 3 hospitals. They have gotten so screwed with walk-in/walk-outs that don't pay their bills that they found it to be cheaper to move their whole operations outside the city limits. We are left with 1 ER in the city. Another case of urban flight.

[Hallen]

I am not all that up to date on the whole Obama health care thing but........
I live here in Germany, pay 14% of my wages for health care -like everyone- and 10 euros every 3 months-- that covers me, wife and all of the kids I want. Doesnt seem too bad to me- and it covers ALOT- braces, glasses, all that jazz.

with your question above-- I remember there was a time when vehicle insurance was not required--- I am sure you would be happy that "everyone" has to have it when someone sideswipes your car.

honestly I dont know which is better, but its not too bad when you know your covered-even when I am visiting family in the U.S. and something would happen.

That's very interesting. Thanks for posting. I am glad it works well for you and I am glad you are satisfied with it.

I do think that's a bit unfair. If I make $100,000 per year, I have to pay around $1200 per month. If I make $30,000 per year, I have to pay $350 per month. Yet I get the exact same health care. That kinda sucks.

Also, I currently pay about 11% per year in federal income tax. I pay almost 40% overall taxes after SS, Medicare, and state taxes. I really don't want to add an additional 14% to that number. Seriously, I could almost pay the entire bill for my company provided health care plan right now on 14% of my pay, and it is a very good plan.

Think about this for a second. If we do 14% of our pay for health care, that's more money than the government currently brings in from most people on their income tax. Wow. The government would be more than doubling their budget right there. How many of you think that's a good deal?

[ck_taft325is]

The biggest issue I have with Obama Care is that it's not even what they are advertising it to be. It's not that if I can't make enough money (currently I cannot) to pay for insurance, I'm covered. It's JUST as expensive and will drive the costs of health care up further making it even further from my reach. So, now I can't afford insurance still, I make less money (higher tax rate), my business which is small makes less money (higher tax rates) and I'll be taxed, penalized and fined for not being able to afford it. How does this work again?

You can strangely enough, place the same arguement from the left to the left's whole case.

Vehicle insurance is another game entirely. I understand your point, but that doesn't stop people from driving without insurance and the fact that insurance companies have ridiculous ways of not paying. For instance... my buddies parents house was robbed. They had had the same insurance company for 20+ years. Paid every month. Countless dollers went just to home owners full coverage insurance. You name it, they had it. Including theft. They get robbed. Then told to buy everything back, the insurance company would refund them based on reciepts. Shortly after work commenced to repair their house (over $100,000 in damages to the inside alone) they got a letter saying their claim was under investigation. The insurance "adjuster" then came out and pretty much told them the $130,000 THOUSAND dollers they had paid out would not be refunded at all. 7 years later their court case ends. They lost. As compensation for a 7 year court case, the judge sentanced the insurance company to pay the court fee's, but anything purchased or work done on their homes was denied past $10,000 per home repair/replacement of stolen items.

Bottom line is it's not the Government's job to be responsible for me or anyone else. That's my job and I might suck at it half the time, but I'm doing my best and learning.

[88driftIS]

doesn't Germany have almost 20% sales tax too?

[kronus]

doesn't Germany have almost 20% sales tax too?

Not on food and agricultural products. 7% for those.

[Bill 84 318i]

I have a very simple argument for those who are against the government /regulation of healthcare.

Whether or not you believe that healthcare is something that should be provided by the government, I think the end result of the "freedom from government" attitude towards healthcare is the exact opposite of the freedom you all call for. Paying for a service that can drop you when you need it most is an "unfreedom". Leaving healthcare to the free market is clearly not working, and somebody needs to get in there and do something.

As for HOW to fix it, I'm not touching that yet. I went to an interesting discussion at a medical school on the intrinsic faults of our healthcare system and why it's expensive. I have to dig up the powerpoint slides, but I may have a followup on that later.

[z31maniac]

Follow up on it.

You have to understand we all think it sucks, but those of us against are pointing to past precendent on what happens when the gov't gets involved.

[Bill 84 318i]

Follow up on it.

You have to understand we all think it sucks, but those of us against are pointing to past precendent on what happens when the gov't gets involved.

Yeah, you're right. I read a few people as arguing against any kind of reformation, but after re-reading through, my argument might be misdirected.

[mar1t1me]

fukken +1, but China isn't really a communist state anymore.

You might wanna tell these guys! They need an update...LOL

[Wiglaf]

"only 14% of my paycheck" isn't really a great argument if you are making upwards of 100k. Not saying that you are, but what is 14% for you might be 40% for me. I imagine that anyone making more than 80k is still all like "wtf is the big deal?"
If you make 3x the average, of course it will be a less than average problem for you.