How can the manual transmission be dying

[Stanley Rockafella]

Some yokel made a thread about building a shelter in his basement and living off of his goldfish. I think it is in the P&R forum now.

[slaterd]

Some yokel made a thread about building a shelter in his basement and living off of his goldfish. I think it is in the P&R forum now.

Wow what are you 12?

[CorvallisBMW]

I was told that the young generation today doesnt even know what crank windows are. All theyve seen are power windows for the 13 years theyve been alive

Of course they don't. Crank windows aren't even available on 99% of cars sold today. It's not their fault that they don't know about something that doesn't exist. They also don't know about punchcard computers, but who gives a fuck? It's dead technology. There's no use expecting, no less forcing, anyone to learn about it.

The real reason Europeans buy more manual transmissions than Americans is simple: COST

-Cars are far more expensive in Europe. A $30,000 car here might be $40,000 in Germany. As such, options are more expensive too. That $500 AT upgrade in the US could cost $800 over there.
-Taxes are higher. You pay VAT on the value of the car. More options = more VAT.
-Fuel is more expensive. Generally, manual trans cars use less fuel than AT cars (though this is slowly changing as AT and dual-clutch transmissions become more efficient).

Also consider that most Europeans "live with less", or at least live less fancifully. They have smaller, simpler homes and smaller, simpler cars. It's just a cultural difference.

[rturbo 930]

a co-worker of mine was amazed they still made cars with crank windows. Personally, I love em

Weird, that's the one 'old car' thing that I can't stand. My Jetta has manual windows and sunroof, fuckin hate it. My E30, like most, has power windows and sunroof, and I'm really looking forward to upgrading them to E36 switches and george graves one-touch kits.

[ThatOneEuroE30]

It's okay with me that manuals are going away cause they stupid fucking criminal cant steal your car. Countless times thieves have "tried" to steal manual cars and failed due to lack of common sense.

[LJ851]

Crank windows? 40% of the cars i own have sliding windows...

[Thizzelle]

I blame asians

[15Michaeljoseph]

How can the manual transmission be dying

I was told that the young generation today doesnt even know what crank windows are. All theyve seen are power windows for the 13 years theyve been alive

*disclaimer: I don't mean to offend anyone with this post*

Don't loose all hope man, I can't be the only 17 year old american who loves driving standard and highly doubts he'll ever touch a car with AT again, listens to the good stuff, and reads newspapers. I guess it's my adolecent rebellion in a way or something. Did I mention I don't have a cell phone?

It's not going to be all bad, I hope. I just sort of view my peers differently because I can see the change that you older and wiser folks have been seeing all along. Society has changed, and surely not for the better. people can argue the advancements in this and that but ultimately, I believe, we've taken a leap in the wrong direction. I know what you mean about us younguns. I really do. they (we, but not me) listen to stupid music and don't know what the words mean, they don't give two shits about all the amazing and tragic important things that happened in the last century and beyond, they're EXTRA ignorant and arrogant, wear their pants way too low (because showing your 'obey' boxers is cool apparently), lack ambition to get out there and get their hands dirty, and are too buried in computers, cell phones, atheism, 'snapbacks', legalizing everything, blatant disregard for authority, and shitty, fake reality shows on netflix to see anything truly IMPORTANT in life. And yes, out of all my senior class in high school, I am one out of TWO (that I know of, room for error, of course) that drives stick on the daily. and I couldn't be more proud honestly. I don't let a transmission make me it's bitch.

so, I will agree 100% with you that the majority of youth today seem like mindless, frighteningly myopic, cattle-like consumers of the next best thing... but don't loose hope.

In closing, crank windows are awesome, but 30 year old power windows that WORK are way cooler.




--Mike

[15Michaeljoseph]

How can the manual transmission be dying

also, it would be nice if car companies didn't take away the manual for many models, thus forcing EVERYONE who buys the car into getting an AT

[einhander]

Wow what are you 12?

This is r3v. Check your vaginal sand at the door.

Anyway - it came from gas mileage. Europeans have always paid more for fuel and manuals were historically more efficient.

[Panici]

This thread hits me right in the feels, I hate driving automatic. To me, it ruins the driving experience. It doesn't matter how nice or "sporty" the car is advertised to be, with a slushbox, it's boring.

I'm all about the man-machine connection.
I think that's why I enjoy my R6 trackbike so much. Something about sitting on an engine spinning to 15k RPM and steering with your body language.

It's also one of the reasons I like the E30 chassis. Feedback through the controls, lack of computer nanny functions, dash angled towards the driver, ETC.

I absolutely cannot wait until I get my Getrag 260 into the E30 in the spring. I have almost all the parts I need. Every day I drive it with the autotragic I die a little inside. The ONLY reason I didn't buy a 5-speed to begin with, is that it's impossible to find one anywhere near "clean" in this area. Almost all the E30s around here are completely rusted away. (My parts car is evidence of this)

also, it would be nice if car companies didn't take away the manual for many models, thus forcing EVERYONE who buys the car into getting an AT

This is what bothers me the most, not having a choice in the matter.

Whenever I see a Dodge Charger, (that's now essentially a big people mover, only available with an Auto) I can't help but think what a disgrace it is to it's namesake. When I think "Dodge Charger" I want to imagine a Jet-black '68 Hemi, not an econobox.


It's even worse with supercars and such. Yes I know a flappy-paddle gearbox is faster around the track, but who cares unless you're racing/competing. When the likes of Ferrari don't even offer new models with a Manual box, it makes me wonder where this whole thing is going.

Even if I had the means to own an exotic, track oriented (or even dedicated) car, it would still be stick. There's just something about heal-toeing into a corner that can't be replaced.

[15Michaeljoseph]

How can the manual transmission be dying

Exactly! The fact is, driving stick is a lot more fun, and gives you something to do, and 'play with' while you're tooling around.

I'm not going to be a liar, when I was first learning to drive, I didn't want a manual (drivers ed cars are all AT) but I had no choice. my mother and I live alone, and she owns an e36 328is, and (used to) own the e30 325is that I'm addicted to currently. Both cars are manual, completely stock. she'd take me to a big parking lot with either of the cars, and give me advice. stall after stall after stall, even in the e36 with it's too-easy 'smooth clutch valve' or whatever it is, I was super frustrated and at some points and very nearly on the verge of tears (Lol). I wanted a car with AT, I was sick of not being able to drive. Ma wanted to teach me a good lesson (and why spend all that money on a beater for your son when you can have a new engine ;)?) so, I went online looking for different tecniques, and I practiced them. like letting the clutch out untill you feel the car roll, THEN add gas. stuff like that. I'm not perfect now, but let's just say I'm comfortable in any driving situation with the car except for the hill starts. Gotta get that down better. but I'm practicing.

The thing is, most teens, I think, can't focus long enough on anything to understand the balance and the feel of the clutch. plus like eating vegetables, if they don't see their parents do it, they won't do it either, so the majority don't try it out.

Even back in the 80's, my mom never had driven manual. when she had my uncle bring the e30 home from the dealer, it sat in the garage for a month before she got the courage to learn.

Okay, no more book posts. back to the matter at hand.

--Mike

[nando]

Kids have been wearing their pants low since like 1987 and listening to "devil music" for even longer. The only thing thats changed is your perception.

Also, manual trans sales for BMW in North America are like 5% or less. You can't even buy a wagon with a manual anymore.

We are a no-automatics family though. My wife can't stand them. :)

[roguetoaster]

I think it's all about the US becoming too risk averse.

It starts with parents over nannying their kids to the point that they might as well lock them in a cage (or closet, depending on locale). As such there is no way their super precious, completely irreplaceable child will drive any car older than 2 years, with anything less than 1,000,000 airbags. Coincidentally, none of those come with manuals.

Or it could be that manufacturers/dealers (read soulless bastards) simply noted a lack of demand for new manuals (as old ones stay on the road far longer, and thus saturate the used market) and reduced supply to match. As such there are simply fewer automatics doing the rounds in families with kids (as families are far more likely to buy new than used). Therefore fewer kids are exposed to manuals and they are simply forgotten along with all of that other tech that actually required physical user interfacing (read moving more than your wrists/hands).

I hate our modern society, as such I pledge to drive old shitboxes with manuals for as long as I am capable.

[redsubdivisions]

I think it's all about the US becoming too risk averse.

It starts with parents over nannying their kids to the point that they might as well lock them in a cage (or closet, depending on locale). As such there is no way their super precious, completely irreplaceable child will drive any car older than 2 years, with anything less than 1,000,000 airbags. Coincidentally, none of those come with manuals.

Or it could be that manufacturers/dealers (read soulless bastards) simply noted a lack of demand for new manuals (as old ones stay on the road far longer, and thus saturate the used market) and reduced supply to match. As such there are simply fewer automatics doing the rounds in families with kids (as families are far more likely to buy new than used). Therefore fewer kids are exposed to manuals and they are simply forgotten along with all of that other tech that actually required physical user interfacing (read moving more than your wrists/hands).

I hate our modern society, as such I pledge to drive old shitboxes with manuals for as long as I am capable.

As much as I agree with this, not every parent is overbearing. Although I see it constantly with where I live, both of my children will learn how to drive stick and know the mechanical basics to a car. their first car will be far from brand new and they can earn it, just as my father made me buy my first one. It is sad that everything is automatic. My personal opinion is that driving stick makes the vehicle you're driving just that more interesting, regardless of make/model. Not to mention when that starter takes a dump, you can buy yourself a bit of time with a nice pop of the clutch. :)