Road rage incident, car vs motorcycle

[ky0u]

[MR E30 325is]

I was just looking at the "Range Rover vs. Biker" thread I started years ago. Funny this popped up.

Kinda glad my days of riding my R6 are over. Too many close calls over the years.

[Exodus_2pt0]

As someone who has been down 3 times, one of which was hitting a deer at 70mph and walking away with minor rash....

I miss riding, but I don't miss the risk involved. I won't be back on 2 wheels until my kids are grown and don't rely on me anymore.

[mrsleeve]

lots of douche baggy going on both sides of that one. Car is bigger car wins, why go about trying to piss people off, to get people to try and run you over on the highway, and why not just let the bikes go why do you have to try and get even, punt a guy off his bike and nearly mash another car in the process..

Fucking Idiots all the way round

[2mAn]

Fucking Idiots all the way round

my thoughts exactly

[Kershaw]

lots of douche baggy going on both sides of that one. Car is bigger car wins, why go about trying to piss people off, to get people to try and run you over on the highway, and why not just let the bikes go why do you have to try and get even, punt a guy off his bike and nearly mash another car in the process..

Fucking Idiots all the way round

Bingo.

My first thought was, why are the bikers picking a fight they can't win?

[decay]

most of the bikers i know are smarter than this, but i suppose those are the kind that don't generate youtube videos.

a lot of the time, the equalizer is to keep a single industrial ball bearing in your pocket. if they're intent on harming you and won't let you evade, well, that costs them a windshield. then, bye.

[FLYNAVY]

sorry……lived in socal long enough to realize these types of bikers deserve anything that comes at them, to include this…..

[decay]

sorry……lived in socal long enough to realize these types of bikers deserve anything that comes at them, to include this…..

yeah, you're really wrong about that. some guys on bikes are dicks; that doesn't mean they deserve life-changing harm done when they fold in your side mirror.

what we watched here is attempted vehicular homicide, and if you're going to say that's cool because you don't like their riding manners, you should a.) consider how the driving manners of cagers affect EVERYONE who rides- it doesn't require hostile intent, it's usually just a second of inattention or generally being shitty at situational awareness, which most people are- and b.) think about any habits you have that might elicit that kind of response in someone else, before establishing the precedent of "it's okay to kill this person because i think they have bad manners".

like i said, the riders should have evaded rather than engaged, but i didn't see a hostile act that justified lethal force for self-defense happening here.

[Kershaw]

Cagers, lol. Don't try to defend your point and then use derogatory terms for car drivers on a car forum.

I'm also not convinced he wanted to knock anyone off their bike since he immediately pulled over afterwards. I think he wanted to drive exactly like they were driving and didn't realize he's 10x the size.

Given your example, if a biker folds in my mirror, he's a complete asshole. If I try to fold in his mirror, I'm homicidal. So there's no parity there. Bikers like this think they're all cool and tough, in their little gang of riced out bikes, and were definitely picking the fight. None of this would have happened without the bravado of the bikers.

[decay]

that's not a derogatory term, and i'm not the only rider here.

and i wrapped up the argument with "they should have evaded rather than engaged" so i think you may have missed the bigger message.

[FLYNAVY]

yeah, you're really wrong about that. some guys on bikes are dicks; that doesn't mean they deserve life-changing harm done when they fold in your side mirror.

what we watched here is attempted vehicular homicide, and if you're going to say that's cool because you don't like their riding manners, you should a.) consider how the driving manners of cagers affect EVERYONE who rides- it doesn't require hostile intent, it's usually just a second of inattention or generally being shitty at situational awareness, which most people are- and b.) think about any habits you have that might elicit that kind of response in someone else, before establishing the precedent of "it's okay to kill this person because i think they have bad manners".

like i said, the riders should have evaded rather than engaged, but i didn't see a hostile act that justified lethal force for self-defense happening here.

That is fair. However, my comments aren't directed at your average rider. I'm talking about formations of idiot kids riding their bikes in a manner that either 1) dangerously obstructs the flow of traffic, and/or 2) causes other motorists to have to evade them to avoid an accident. I completely agree that these folks are in the minority, however I have very little sympathy for those who are part of that minority. Maybe death isn't a reasonable punishment, but if you ride that way, you WILL get hurt sooner or later, either through your own overconfidence and incompetence, or from someone hurting you intentionally. I'm not advocating it, but I don't feel bad for them.

As for "bad situational awareness"……..meh, yeah sometimes. However keep in mind that a bike is difficult to see, particularly in socal lane splitting scenarios where traffic is at a near standstill, and you have some jabroni coming up your right hand side between lanes at 50+ mph. Saw that ALL the time in san diego, and it was ONLY because I was young, had good vision, reflexes, and constantly was on the look out that some poor idiot kid didn't mort tumbling over my car as I carefully attempted to change lanes. You have probably less than 5 seconds in that scenario to see the bike, register that in your mind, and then make the move to avoid collision based on the size of a bike rider, the rate of closure, and how close they are when they finally emerge from your blind spot. That is probably a more extreme example, but there are plenty of others where bikers just don't appear to have an awareness of the limitations motorists (in cars/trucks) have when they are saddled into their bloated, obstructed view, new build SUV's/sedans. Much like a pedestrian in a rain shower trying to cross the street with the sun beyond the clouds directly in the eyes of the oncoming traffic. Looks from the pedestrian perspective like there is no visibility problem whatsoever, however it is completely different from behind the wheel of traffic. Just some thoughts. I think the problem is less one sided than you give credit for.

[decay]

Maybe death isn't a reasonable punishment, but if you ride that way, you WILL get hurt sooner or later

when i went to scotland i of course found a biker bar to stop into, and there was a plaque on the wall that said "ride like a knob and you'll die." absolutely true, and when that death comes as a result of your own action, that's on you. howevercomma- let's remember that hostile, life-threatening acts are, in fact, illegal in America.

As for "bad situational awareness"……..meh, yeah sometimes.

you are a (former?) navy pilot, and i am a former combat-arms soldier. your and my situational awareness skills are not representative of the general population :P

However keep in mind that a bike is difficult to see, particularly in socal lane splitting scenarios where traffic is at a near standstill, and you have some jabroni coming up your right hand side between lanes at 50+ mph.

there have been studies on accidents involving lane-sharing, and they determined that the "safest" speed delta to the cars around you is 10mph. if that's what the data says, in my opinion, you are taking your life in your own hands if you exceed that.

as for me, i cannot imagine splitting stopped traffic at 50mph. i have done some stupid shit in my life and managed to live through it, but that is just fucking asking to die or at least be maimed. i have never seen another rider do that while commuting across the bay bridge from oakland to SF. when there's gridlock, you pick your way through slowly and watch out for people who move to block because they're pissed about being stuck. yeah, that happens.

i did read the rest of your thoughts, just not quoting them. i hope i have made my position clear on the responsibility from the rider's side.

[varg]

Oh these threads.

Say you're walking through the mall and some middle school age kids go running by, little noisy hoodlum brats. One of them slaps the cell phone out of your hand as he passes you. Do you:

A. Pick up your phone and utter some obscenities, watch the comically overweight security guard roll after them on his segway
B. Run after the kid and lay him out on the concrete with a punch

You aren't law enforcement and a judge in one, you don't get to decide that it's justice to cause great bodily injury to a fleeing biker for some minor damage to your car, and if you make that call you're even more in the wrong than the hoodlum fuck on the bike. If a biker breaks something on your car and got caught he'll get some sort of property damage charge in a court of law, you intentionally run him down and knock him off of his bike and that's a greater charge, as it should be. There are shitty people in this world, and you don't get to run around like a comic book vigilante hurting people for being little shits, you just have to pick up the pieces and move on in some cases. You aren't defending your rights by doing something like this, so there's no justification for it, it's just being a hothead and a hypocrite.

People like those bikers make me embarrassed to be associated with them as a rider, and people who go around beating their chests saying "he got what he was coming to him" or "he picked the fight" in the comments and threads like these make me embarrassed to be associated with them as a car guy.

[FLYNAVY]

Perhaps we can agree they are all idiots and move on