Gun Thread

[mrsleeve]

A pistol is just fine for home defense. In the home its close quarters perfect for a pistol that is easy to maneuver. A rife is a bit bigger and higher penetration with the rounds.

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Common thought but not totally accurate.

Think about when you push out to shoot your pistol, your over all length and muzzle is about the same over all distance from your body as a 16" barreled carbine or 18" barreled shot gun. So if your having to clear rooms in your house or looking around corners your still having to employ the same basic tactics. If your doing anything close to correctly its not like it is in the movies.

In my personal opinion a SBR in a hard hitting (Not 9mm) pistol cartridge would be the very best H/D weapon. But that can run you afoul of L/E if you were to ever have to use it. A good scatter gun really is the best commonly available H/D weapon, I am not saying a pistol or rifle cartridge carbine is not effective either just my views on it.

[rwh11385]

In my personal opinion a SBR in a hard hitting (Not 9mm) pistol cartridge would be the very best H/D weapon. But that can run you afoul of L/E if you were to ever have to use it.

More detail on why? Thanks.

[ParsedOut]

^
really, you whack a intruder with a 12 gauge of any load hes going to STOP RIGHT THERE, hes going to be way more than pissed off hes going to be getting close to dead. At point blank H/D ranges #6 is going to make a mess and tear an intruder apart pretty good . Though if your using a scatter gun it should be loaded with 00 or #4 buck anyway.

A scatter gun is going to stop a threat immediately as anything else if not more so

Who said point blank? Across the hall, heavy coat, over weight intruder on meth... I'm not betting that any low brass bird shot would seal the deal. Buck shot, hell yeah but talk about over penetration.

[xAZxE30x]

Finally got my processing head setup tonight! The trimmer is hooked up to a shop vac to pull the shavings out

I still need to tweak it just a tad but so far it works well how it is setup. I need a casefeeder :/ handfeeding 223 is a bitch

[mrsleeve]

If you have bird loads in your H/D gun thats a big no no in the 1st place and stupid, but it will get the job done unless its white box Winchester from walmart my 870 does not even like those things

More detail on why? Thanks.

you have a much more compact close into your body weapons system that is ready to go not at low ready.

Example with a pistol when you push out to actually use it you have your arms out. Stick them out and make a fist, from your chest to the end of your fist your looking at about 24-26" (for me anyway) then add another 3-4" for the barrel of your pistol and your looking at some where in the neighborhood of 28-30" away from your body is where the muzzle of your weapon is at. Not to mention your arms are out stretched and easy to manipulate if someone gets a hold of your hands or weapon by surprise. Whats the OAL of a AR carbine 30-35" and a more traditional stocked scatter gun with a 18" tube is going to be about 36-38" OAL Your not gaining a lot of compactness in an employable weapons system at that point by using a pistol.

Now you go to a SBR or SBS and take that 16" or 18" barrel and cut 6-9" inches off that in a traditional pattern weapon and you have a much shorter steady weapons system hell I think I have seen AR barrels down as short as 7.25". Look a MP5k has OAL of something like 13-14" and it puts your arms in close to your body where you have more control over the weapon and can use your core muscles to more advantage to control it if someone were get a hold of the end of it while entering a room or the from the inside edge of a corner . This Lets you keep the weapon in a effective firing position and sticking closer to concealment or corners while "slicing the pie" to get a look around it with out exposing your self as much. There are other benefits to using a platform like this, recoil control, lighting and sighting options and mounting points more ammo capacity, and greater accuracy and inherently faster more accurate follow up shots Or you could go bull pup like a FN/H PS90 with the 9" barrel on it with a OAL of about 17" and puts your hands back under your chin giving you lots of control and leverage on the weapon if you need it.

I say pistol caliber due to over penetration concerns in a H/D setting and I am not a 9mm fan I would rather use a 45acp or 10mm .

if I ever buy a PS90 its getting stamped SBR'ed and going to be my primary inside H/D weapon


The L/E thing can be a little sticky due to the fact that a SBR is a title II weapon and required a tax stamp. Since these are not "normal" weapons and depending on your local L/E community and laws regarding self defense it might not be a good idea to use one in this fashion if you dont want your cheif LEO to reject your title II permits or future applications for NFA items

[rwh11385]

The L/E thing can be a little sticky due to the fact that a SBR is a title II weapon and required a tax stamp. Since these are not "normal" weapons and depending on your local L/E community and laws regarding self defense it might not be a good idea to use one in this fashion if you dont want your cheif LEO to reject your title II permits or future applications for NFA items

Gotcha. Just checking it wasn't like a Harold Fish type thing you were alluding to.

[frankenbeemer]

Example with a pistol when you push out to actually use it you have your arms out.

I snipped a lot of good advice to nitpick this. If you should (and you shouldn't) find yourself in a retention situation, the handgun is easier to retain and can be fired (with accuracy at that distance) from the retention position.

[FlexdXJ]

I always go commando, no panties to get in the way...

You were acting as if it's crazy to want a rifle for a home defense gun. As a matter of fact JHP or not, pistol rounds go right though drywall with continued lethal force. If you're super concerned about it, then load up some bird shot in your shotgun and be prepared to really piss of an intruder. Personally, I'd rather just choose my shots and stop the threat immediately.

Not acting crazy about it at all. Ideally, i'd use my pistol right now since I don't have a shotgun, plus my AR doesn't have a light on it(my pistol and streamlight sit next to each other. Different strokes for different folks. I never said it wasn't a good weapon for self defense, just not my cup of tea. Most likely I won't need 30 rounds if I have an intruder.

[myinfernalbmw]

In regards to overpenetration of rifles (well over penetration in general)-

http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/#OVERPENETRATION

[SoEm0]

Well if we are talking SBR it changes things a bit. That is a bit smaller than a typical carbine. I am not saying a AR is a terrible HD tool. I would just prefer a pistol. I like the .45 for HD simply because you can get some sub-sonic rounds and limit wall penetration. In my current living situation with people on both sides I would hate for a .223 round to go through an intruder and keep going. All good points about HD. I really need to get on the ball about a new shotgun lol.

[mrsleeve]

^
unless your living in a duplex Over penetration from a 223 going from your house to your neighbors is going to be unlikely. 223 starts to tumble badly once it hits one layer of drywall, its going to be unlikely to pass out of your outside walls and though your neighbors outside walls and still retain enough energy to do any great harm.

I snipped a lot of good advice to nitpick this. If you should (and you shouldn't) find yourself in a retention situation, the handgun is easier to retain and can be fired (with accuracy at that distance) from the retention position.

not that I necessarily disagree, especially from a holstered situation, its just that if your entering a room with your weapon in a retention position your weapon in hand its not in a very effective firing position.

If I am having to defend my home, I want to keep that weapon in the safest most effective firing position until there is no more threat. And to me that combination is embodied most in the small compact SBR.

[SoEm0]

Yeah I live in a town house and share walls on both sides. So that would be the worry.

[u3b3rg33k]

So wait. will my 10ga work for home defense or not? if I miss, will the discharge act like a flashbang?

[shameson]

Picking this up in a few weeks from a friend of my dad who's a huge gun collector. Springfield Garand in great condition. Based on the serial number it was manufactured in October of '43. Will be an excellent addition to my Mosin-Nagant and Mauser.

[FlexdXJ]

[ATTACH]80751[/ATTACH]
Picking this up in a few weeks from a friend of my dad who's a huge gun collector. Springfield Garand in great condition. Based on the serial number it was manufactured in October of '43. Will be an excellent addition to my Mosin-Nagant and Mauser.

Giggity. Nice Rifle! I'd love to have one to sit beside my M44.