Global Warming: What do you think? What do you know?

[StereoInstaller1]

We need to build more refineries - the newest one in the states is like 25-30 years old. They haven't made any since the 70s!

If we would make more, we could refine oil cheaper and give off less pollutants AND lower the cost of gasoline, along other byproducts of crude oil.

I personally do not understand this logic. It is the exact same logic as the hippie geeks that drive hybrids around here..."I get 2 billion miles per gallon, so I spent $35K on a pile of shit car to save $20 a week on gas"

Forcing Americans (soon chinese too, huh?) to do something other than drive everywhere they go would be a real help, not building more shit.

[Sean]

I personally do not understand this logic. It is the exact same logic as the hippie geeks that drive hybrids around here..."I get 2 billion miles per gallon, so I spent $35K on a pile of shit car to save $20 a week on gas"

Forcing Americans (soon chinese too, huh?) to do something other than drive everywhere they go would be a real help, not building more shit.

So, you don't think that building up-to-date refineries will be a good thing?

No matter what we do, gasoline and crude oil products will ALWAYS be in demand! You do realize that these refineries provide more than just gas, I'm sure. Kerosene, Propane, Gas, waxes, asphalt oil for roads - everything comes from these plants! Even if we all used hydrogen powered vehicles, we will still need oil for roads, etc.

My point is - as time goes on, these refineries are getting too old to function, and are running on 50s and 60s technology - why do that? Why not invest some money into new refineries that are much more economical and efficient than the old hunks of junk.

I am by no means saying that we should keep driving huge SUVs and not try to find other forms of energy...did you miss the rest of my post?

Another thing - you complain about the Prius or something along those lines using lots of resources? Well, new technology will always be that way - so either you can tell everyone to ride a bike (good luck with that) or invest money into new technologies...

[nando]

haha. sometimes we get old drawings from the refineries that were done by hand - back in the 50s. the scary thing is most of the stuff from back then is still in service!

[StereoInstaller1]

So do you guys really think a new refinery would be so much more efficient that it would be worth tearing down an existing one?

It just seems that since the science of refining has been around so long that not too much room for improvement is possible.

[Sean]

So do you guys really think a new refinery would be so much more efficient that it would be worth tearing down an existing one?

It just seems that since the science of refining has been around so long that not too much room for improvement is possible.

Well, I suppose I'm just speculating. Cars have been around for a long time too, but we've improved on them? I'm pretty sure components of refineries have been improved since the 50's.

WELL - here's an obvious one - computers! I bet they are still running some old computers in there, and if they're not, newer ones are jimmy-rigged in there. At Granite, they had an old batch style asphalt plant that was like 30-40 years old, and the original computer (or control panel thing) was still in there! I bet the refineries are very similar to that.

Again, I'm ASSUMING. I wouldn't mind working in plant design in the petroleum business, I think it might be fun. But, personally, I'd rather help develop a hydrogen engine. :)

[LEANE30]

Well, I suppose I'm just speculating. Cars have been around for a long time too, but we've improved on them? I'm pretty sure components of refineries have been improved since the 50's.

WELL - here's an obvious one - computers! I bet they are still running some old computers in there, and if they're not, newer ones are jimmy-rigged in there. At Granite, they had an old batch style asphalt plant that was like 30-40 years old, and the original computer (or control panel thing) was still in there! I bet the refineries are very similar to that.

Again, I'm ASSUMING. I wouldn't mind working in plant design in the petroleum business, I think it might be fun. But, personally, I'd rather help develop a hydrogen engine. :)

X2. Internal Combustion has SOUL, and not the type that sports a gerry-curl.

[DocG]

Global Warming definately does exist, and evidence has been found to support the same. As humans we do end up polluting the earth in every which way. The other downside is that we are depleating limited natural resources in the excuse of industrialisation.

The problem may not be faced by us in this life time, but the fact is that we are trying to address it now so that the future inhabitants of the planet do not have to suffer through the drastic climatic changes that could take place.

There was an argument earlier about CO2 being 38% of the pollutant content of the air, and that the figure was twice as high as it was prior to industrialisation. However it was also mentioned that since it was still a small percentage it should not be cause to worry. Well if we've doubled that figure already when we weren't as industrialised as we are today, how long will it be till we double it again?

There is a problem at hand and if someone wants to drive a hybrid thinking that it'll help, then by all means they should. In fact electrical vehicles, even though electricity is obtained from fossil fuels function much more efficiently than mechanical engines. Hence there is a tremendous overall rise in efficiency...

Do your part...

[Sean]

There is a problem at hand and if someone wants to drive a hybrid thinking that it'll help, then by all means they should. In fact electrical vehicles, even though electricity is obtained from fossil fuels function much more efficiently than mechanical engines. Hence there is a tremendous overall rise in efficiency...

Do your part...

You're correct. If everyone drove electric cars in the world, the pollution could be controlled much easier - since pollution would only be coming from coal burning or oil burning power plants. More money would be spent on air-scrubbing technology and the like.

But, electric doesn't hold shit against internal combustion hydrogen motors! :)

[E30 Wagen]

This is my question for people to think about...

Who benefits from the idea of global-warming?

Anybody who gives a damn about air quality and the development of new technology for the 21st century. kthxbye

[delfin]

So there's actually people on this forum who think humans are causing a dramatic change in the environment? The highest ever CO2 levels were around before the first factories went up... All the elements on the earth are exactly the same elements that have been around forever, no matter what state of matter they are in. And why isn't anyone talking about "Global Cooling"?; the direct counter to "Global Warming"? Oh, that's right, no one cares to do any research and instead chooses to believe everything the media says and takes Al Gore word for word. Al Gore's bullshit ethanol alternative fuels have led to more destruction of food crops and more pollution than anyone has ever seen. The amount of corn required to fill 1 SUV up with fuel is enough to feed a person for an entire year. Iowa itself has had to halt production of Soy and Wheat in order to satisfy Corn production. Brazil has taken up Soy production and has in turn had to deforest a huge percentage of their rainforests to make up the deficit. Not to mention the fact that ethanol refineries burn more carbon based fuels than any other form of prodution, but that's ok, right? The Earth goes through climate cycles and shit happens. How is it that there was a minor ice age in medieval Europe? It must have been that they were putting too much carbon into the air from their blacksmithing and castle building. Learn to build a case for yourself and stop believing everything that the liberal, corporate, media wants you to believe. They make more money off your ignorance than you could ever wish to spend on "green energy".

[Il Duce]

Follow the money.



And I'm done with this topic.

[joshh]

Now think of how those electric cars get the power to charge their batteries. Pretty much back to square one.

[craig4ie]

I want to know where all the people who don't buy into global warming are getting their information. There is a widespread consensus amongst the established scientific community that greenhouse gas emissions from humans are one of the main contributors to the temperature increases we are experiencing.

Search google scholar or any university library for "global warming" or "climate change" and tell me what the people who have dedicated their lives to studying earth's atmosphere have to say.

I doubt that few, if any of us (including myself) on this website are educated enough to understand this issue and offer a fair opinion on it. My opinion is that people need to shut up and read what them-thar smart people (not the media, not al gore, not random conspiracy websites) have to say before they open their uneducated mouthes.

[e30e]

I want to know where all the people who don't buy into global warming are getting their information. There is a widespread consensus amongst the established scientific community that greenhouse gas emissions from humans are one of the main contributors to the temperature increases we are experiencing.

IF YOU WATCHED THE GEORGE CARLIN YOUTUBE VIDEO IT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION

If you watch Al Gore's movie he explains the theory of global warming cause global cooling. A theory which is fine and logical. But what a lot of people touch on is the earth is a lot like a human body, it regulates its own the heating and cooling, the earth has many shocks before and decided to heat or cool its issues before any humans could ever have an affect and if you believe humans are going to cause one of these shocks again then we're all ready screwed no effort to go "green" is going to save us.

As an AG major all the sudden my university is telling us to look in to "green" career fields. What is the "green" career field, its a career called green to make us all feel good and better, its still a job of producing or making something for a consumer, its just now called something else. Green is the new black and its just a statement, something to make us think that its okay. Going green is just a new way to create jobs, growth, and a sense of worth, in terms of humanity its all great but just like everything else its just bullshit. You live, you pay taxes then die.

BOTTOM LINE IS, THE WORLD ISN'T GOING TO END, WE ARE.

[2Big4a3Series]

Is the earth warming up? I think so. Is it because of humans? I DON'T think so.

Looking at the last 4 to 5 years the winters have been very mild around here (in the Washington DC area) compared to 25-30 years ago when it would be VERY cold for at least 3 to 4 weeks if not the entire winter. The temperature never went below 26 this winter and we didn't have any significant snowfall. Many years ago, it was common to get 6 to 8 inches at least 2 to 3 times a winter.

Undeniably the earth is in a warming trend but humans are not causing it. We don't have nearly enough information to draw this conclusion. We have made accurate accounts of the weather for less than 150 years compared to the millions of years that the earth has been in existance. I seriously doubt that all of the smog and pollution and greenhouse gas that we created in the last 50 to 60 years can destroy something that is much bigger and much older than us.