The moderator of Thursday's vice-presidential debate

[Aptyp]

No, unfortunately I don't. However, not being necessarily from Bin Laden himself doesn't weaken the point of the letter, he didn't pull the entire thing off single-handedly.

I know the letter surfaced a year after 9/11, that's why I mentioned the protests that occurred in the 90's. The letter is just the most concise and well-written summary of the entire sentiment that I can think of. Think of it as the wikipedia entry for 'Why The Middle East Is Pissed Off At The US'.

Lol, they hate our freedom-fries.


Protests in the 90's occurred all over world, except in US (we were busy getting busy). Those protest are also a direct result of what we did in the 80's. That still doesn't justify Muslim Brotherhood which gave it's way to most anti-western beliefs. It started that way, and terrorist masterminds cashed in on it. We gave them weapons, we gave the reason, now we give them an enemy. We're talking about behind-closed-doors politics and none of us know everything about. I am sure president, whoever he may be is better informed and can make better judgment. It may be wrong.

Spreading democracy is dangerous, and we all know that. Some people don't deserve freedom, and their definition of freedom maybe praying five times a day. It's a Mary-go-round debate, because our cultures are so fundamentally different.

If you're talking about protests in Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and so forth. Then hell yeah, they're protesting today to. They are throwing rocks at armed soldiers and wonder why they get shot. They invade a country and lose their own land. They select a leader who screams "death to Israel" then hides while impressionate young men are throwing themselves under tanks. I don't always support Israel, but if a country is forced to live in homes with bunkers, then country desrves to whoop ass of anything that poses them a threat. (Hope I didn't open another can with Israel)

[Aptyp]

It's a pretty big stretch to compare a government administered health plan to the DMV or the Post Office. Doctors are different than the dolts that process driver's licenses and those that deliver my bills. I'm not sure how many physicians most of you know personally, but I work in the medical field and know quite a few (I'm actually aspiring to be one myself). Of those I have encountered, the demeanor of those who work in private practice is the same as those who work in the VA hospitals (GASP, a GOVERNMENT-run health care system). Providing health care is different than selling tires; competition amongst clinicians is unlikely to result in superior care. EVERY clinician that I've ever encoutered (a lot of them) provides their highest quality care regardless of compensation.
Speaking of the VA, statistically, it provides some of the best care in the country with very little administration costs (percentage wise). Furthermore, of the hundreds of patients I have encountered, those who receive care at the VA seem no less satisfied than those who receive private care.
Overall, for the amount of money we spend on healthcare, our populace should be a lot more healthy :).

Lol, DMVs in NC are private run, and they still suck.

I don't think the plan is for doctors to compete. The whole point of people selecting their physicians is a condition in both Obama and McCains plans.

Difference is that Obama wants to reform current system by mandating universal coverage. In that theory, every person buys in. But that theory fail at understanding, that people who don't currently buy in, don't go to doctors. If every person, who'll throw part of his paycheck in the pot, will expect medical care in return.

In that scenario, insurance rates would go up to meet the demand for health care. Relying on private sector and trying to regulate it would by just as desastorous as current mortgage crisis. This leaves out pharmasutical companies which usher to stock market, what makes you think they'll lower their prices if suddenly everyone needs medical care.
It's a solid theory, but it's naive. It's exactly why Clinton and Edwards made a laughing stock out of him in the primaries debates. It's going to turn into soup-kitchen.



I am not a big fan of McCain plan, either. I think McCains plans has little chanse to succeed in todays Wall Street. But at least McCains plan goes after the financial gain and not physical therapy. McCains plan does create more competion among drug companies. It's partially a continuation of Bush plan. As much as it hurts me to say it, in the past few years generic drugs have become more available and that has only been a start. Pharmacies (NC at least) began having electronic charts and prescriptions, and that helps not sitting in a waiting room for hours. That also created more jobs in pharmasutical field. McCains plan is the way to make market work against itself. Capitalism in action. To me it's naive, because who says that competing companies won't shake hands, like Ford and General Motors did for a long time, but then we'd end up with foreign companies trying to cash in on the lack of competition. Corrupt politics and paying lobbyists could screw this up.

[Vedubin01]

i thought that sarah palin was rubbing off on you for a sec.....

I would have more typing errors for my massive erection getting in the way of the key board! :p

[hugh jass]

typing way to fast and not reading over....

Pledge of Allegiance

Thanks for the correction!:p

i thought that sarah palin was rubbing off on you for a sec.....

[kronus]

Got "official" copy? Dated or authenticated? I mean, it says that it was pulled from internet in arabic. Is bin Laden the only literate arab with internet?

If this surfaced over a year after 9/11, then your arguement is kinda weak.

Should we go after every so-called "leader" if they threaten US? If that's the case, Iran here we come.

No, unfortunately I don't. However, not being necessarily from Bin Laden himself doesn't weaken the point of the letter, he didn't pull the entire thing off single-handedly.

I know the letter surfaced a year after 9/11, that's why I mentioned the protests that occurred in the 90's. The letter is just the most concise and well-written summary of the entire sentiment that I can think of. Think of it as the wikipedia entry for 'Why The Middle East Is Pissed Off At The US'.

[Vedubin01]

what is the pledge of a legions?

typing way to fast and not reading over....

Pledge of Allegiance

Thanks for the correction!:p




Bill in the house going to vote..... 15 mins open!

[hugh jass]

Personal faith people take very seriously. You cant explain where everything came from. The answer is not "well its always been there" Though Religion does not have solid scientific fact on how things started, it was what this country was founded on. See your dollars in your wallet, or say the pledge of a legions. I’m sure other countries would take kindly to your doctrine. Might want to check them out. I’m sure they will welcome you with open arms.


Darkwing, I heed the warning!

what is the pledge of a legions?

[Vedubin01]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

It's a pretty good summary of at least some of the reasons a lot of the Middle East is s vehemently against the U.S.

(and no, it's not because 'they hate our freedom')

They are against us because we stand hand in hand with Israel. Its been a fight that goes back to the beginning of time. Israel is our biggest buyer of Military weapons and intelligence support. That will never change.

[kronus]

I understand that there's a place for war, yes.

I just dislike being manipulated into supporting a war that is being fought for the wrong causes (because it's 'unpatriotic' not to).

[DarkWing6]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

It's a pretty good summary of at least some of the reasons a lot of the Middle East is s vehemently against the U.S.

(and no, it's not because 'they hate our freedom')

Thanks!


Do you understand that there is a place for war?

I am not saying I back every agressive move we have ever made, but I do believe that there is a place for it. Intellegence and all that stuff we have (that the general public does not and cannot hear) exists for a good purpose, and if we have solid reason to believe an attack will happen then I want us to be the first to move.

If I knew someone was going to come into my house and try and kill my family I wouldn't let them take my son and stop them before they take my wife. I'll get em on the porch or at their house before they come close to my family. With that said, I would try to do it without violence, but there are people in this world that just don't reason like that (look at all the problems we have with husbands and wives beating each other up). That is my point.

[Pinepig]

Who knew that Lair had fucked his sister and sent their kid to California.

[Aptyp]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

It's a pretty good summary of at least some of the reasons a lot of the Middle East is s vehemently against the U.S.

(and no, it's not because 'they hate our freedom')

Got "official" copy? Dated or authenticated? I mean, it says that it was pulled from internet in arabic. Is bin Laden the only literate arab with internet?

If this surfaced over a year after 9/11, then your arguement is kinda weak.

Should we go after every so-called "leader" if they threaten US? If that's the case, Iran here we come.

[kronus]

By involvement in the Middle East, I mean massive military and financial aid to Israel, as well as continued use/abuse of the U.S.'s power in the U.N.

"If you are the friend of my enemy, you are my enemy" is a common belief.

[KenC]

This is another terrible idea. What government regulated services do you enjoy being a "customer" of? The DMV? How about the post office? The last doctor I want to see if the disgrutled grumpy one that I get stuck with after being in the government waiting room for 2 hours. Now the government can physically have you by the balls.

Here is your solution (see, I am one of those people that point out the problem and offer a solution).

Offer tax incetives to businesses for offering health care to their employees and encrouage competition within health care.

Now we have health care provided by our jobs, options for who we want to go with, and providers that are competing for our business. Competion creates good service and lower costs. They are competing because they WANT you to be their customer, not because they GET you as their customer.

This is precisely what is fundamentally uneconomical about the healthcare system of our country. Over 30% of your private health insurance premiums go directly to administration of the system. Staggering, isn't it? Inefficiency at its finest.
Neither candidate's plan does much to curtail the rising cost of medicine. You can only apply so many band-aids to a festering wound.
We have some of the best physicians in the world here in the US, and one of the poorest structures for them to provide care.

It's a pretty big stretch to compare a government administered health plan to the DMV or the Post Office. Doctors are different than the dolts that process driver's licenses and those that deliver my bills. I'm not sure how many physicians most of you know personally, but I work in the medical field and know quite a few (I'm actually aspiring to be one myself). Of those I have encountered, the demeanor of those who work in private practice is the same as those who work in the VA hospitals (GASP, a GOVERNMENT-run health care system). Providing health care is different than selling tires; competition amongst clinicians is unlikely to result in superior care. EVERY clinician that I've ever encoutered (a lot of them) provides their highest quality care regardless of compensation.
Speaking of the VA, statistically, it provides some of the best care in the country with very little administration costs (percentage wise). Furthermore, of the hundreds of patients I have encountered, those who receive care at the VA seem no less satisfied than those who receive private care.
Overall, for the amount of money we spend on healthcare, our populace should be a lot more healthy :).

[Aptyp]

Have you read Bin Laden's letters to the U.S. government? Did you ever see footage or hear of the massive protests against U.S. involvement in the Middle East in the 90's?

First of, When you say Middle East, do you mean Israel? or Kuwait?

Because as far as Israel goes, they have been handling their business.

If you're talking about Kuwait, then you'll probably know that entire region was screwed by US involvement, mainly because they were scared shitless of a man that we corrupted with power. Or is it something like most men that we corrupted and put in power. From Pakistan to Egypt.

Biden has been right plenty of times, and what do you expect from a person who made a career out of being a senator. He's been there for so damn long, that when he brought up Home Depot, audience called out his bullshit. Biden has done it all, and is by far one of the dozen qualified people to run the country today. Unfortunately, it won't happen.

Bidens stances are (were) way different from Obama, other than call themselves "democrats", these two are morally different. Biden has openly criticized Obama every step of the way. The only time they worked together is on the "End poverty" bill, when everyone worked with them (still hasn't gotten through congress, though). Biden criticized Obama for not voting on hard issues, he criticized him for not doing his job as an elected official. Biden criticized Obama for experience.

But for dems, none of that matter.


Biden is superior to ANY VP that McCain could possibly choose. In the best case scenario, if Obama wins, he'll get shot, and Biden would take office.

Voting for a democratic president with a democratic congress would be a disaster. Especially as some supreme judges plan to retire. Consequences are dangerous.

McCain is known for working with both sides, why do you think Biden has such respect for the man. As a matter of fact, nearly every seasoned dem in the congress has worked with McCain on one issue or another. He's shown being a team player and being a leader on both sides. McCain got into politics because he believed he could make a serious change. People don't get elected into any office, if their constituents don't demands change. McCain and Biden have been there, and have seen it all.

Don't forget it's not Biden/Obama and not Palin/McCain campaigns. People are confusing who'll be in power, and who we'll the court joker. Not to mention that Biden would have a job in McCains administration (openly discussed by McCain of the character of people he wants in the White House).

Not to mention Obama has strong ties with DSP and CPUSA, which really damages his reputation. If his change is reverse perestroika, then that is the kind of change I'll avoid.