Israel just doesn't get it...

[z31maniac]

What does any of that have to do with the discussion at hand? No hostility at all.

To state that you're ignorant or stupid because you have faith while claiming to be Athiest (which is a standpoint of Faith in No God) is ironic and oh wait for it, ignorant.

If you really have an issue with me getting gang beat to near death and recieving emergency medical treatment to save my life at the age of 17, that says a lot more about you than me.

Hostility comes from being called ignorant and having words put in my mouth, if you care to stop that, we can go on with a civil discussion.

To me it's not Faith that there is no God. It's scientific fact. He can't be proven to exist, so until EMPERICAL EVIDENCE constitutes the existence of God, he does not exist.

That is not having "faith" or "belief" in God not existing, that is knowing that God does not exist.

Not talking about Healthcare here sweetheart, talking about your lack of Federal Income tax liability, but we'll drop that. I just wanted to get that jab in on you.

[Farbin Kaiber]

me neither :(

I usually take that as a sign that I'm right.

[kronus]

ARGH. No one is quoting and arguing with me. I'm out of here.

me neither :(

[Farbin Kaiber]

ARGH. No one is quoting and arguing with me. I'm out of here.

[ck_taft325is]

OH and where the fuck did I blame God for anything?

You are a presumptive, welfare accepting little twat aren't you?

What does any of that have to do with the discussion at hand? No hostility at all.

To state that you're ignorant or stupid because you have faith while claiming to be Athiest (which is a standpoint of Faith in No God) is ironic and oh wait for it, ignorant.

If you really have an issue with me getting gang beat to near death and recieving emergency medical treatment to save my life at the age of 17, that says a lot more about you than me.

[bimmer_E30]

this thread sucks, and is full of shit.

[ck_taft325is]

I believe politics should be based on law and schools based on science. I dont think the bible has any place in public funded schools. I do not think Atheism is a belief system, it simply means "with out god" not against, but with out. I suggest not teaching without god vs with god, teach something usefull!

I do not look at my view points as arrogant, nor do I use it as a crutch, I see it as standing on my own, where God may me helping others to stand. If you need help there is no shame in getting help, wether it be from god or from social services, I dont care, just get the help you need to make you a functional part of society.

Good point. I've never looked at it that way, AND I fully 100% agree with that.

Came across as such and really, I didn't aim to offend with that statement.

[ck_taft325is]

Wildly personal experiences don't count then?

You realize you follow, in faith, that God doesn't exist, right? Before you get offended at all, I want to point out that you cannot claim it is "easier for believers than non believers, they can simply say they have faith..." without having had faith and used it as such. I'll tell you from personal experience and watching people via the Church that faith and everything involved, is far from "easier".

So, by discussion, one is pushing their agenda? I can see that, but please understand what I meant by that statement and the context it was said in. Ridiculously personal, anti-Christian agenda's are far different than stating what a belief system is or correcting what people are saying in regards to it. Heh, there's some huge "you're stupid if you believe in xyz" floating around here and a lack thereof civility or at least a common ground. Polarizing any issue discredits your name and ruins discussion. It's not so much that people can't talk about these issues, it's that people don't want to. They would rather right another belief system or social group off because they feel arrogantly superior.

Fact: We all suck. We all screw up. We all have common interests. It's less about who's right if people can get over themselves and more about coming to common ground and a mutual respect/understanding of where each side is coming from.

We can all agree that killing a child is wrong, right? Or rape? Or laziness? So, what's the rub in someone believing in God and feeling that there is an accountability of some sort at the end of this crap existence?

Someone said that Hitler, Dahmer, etc could, go to heaven. Christ did, yes, pay for all sins. Those commited against him, those we commit against others and those commited against us. The clincher isn't that you just repent and turn from your ways. It's a relationship thing. It's an acknowledgement that you don't have it figured out. That you're not better than any other person on this planet because frankly, we all have evil inside us. It's not about "arriving" in some moral sense. It's not about judging everyone around you. It's knowing that you're at fault and really, if you look at the purest sense of good, you fall short no matter how hard you try.

Trying to straighten out misconceptions is an agenda, yes. But not one bent on insulting, degrading and overall being an asshole towards another person(s) or belief system. I can fully respect that you're Athiest. And because I have faith in God, no, this does not make me better than you. We're all just peoples.

[Farbin Kaiber]

And, for the record, Faith can be defined by the original Greek context of Pisteuo (πιστεύω), or the verb Pistis. Phonetically in English at least. Also, Check also the Hoffman etymological Dictionary of Ancient Greek in the word "peithomai" from which "pisteuo" derives.

The actual meaning is quite far from what people really think it is.

[briansjacobs]

OH and where the fuck did I blame God for anything?

You are a presumptive, welfare accepting little twat aren't you?

yeah, that is going to win over hears and minds.

[briansjacobs]

Brian, I appreciate your over all good attitude and civility in regards to Faith and Christian's in general. Let me ask you a question though...

... you say you don't have any problems with Christians in general but, you believe their Faith (i.e. belief system of morality and God) should be left out of social spheres such as Politics and Schools? Does this include all Faith based or belief based "assumptions" (if you will) in regards to morality and/or God or a lack thereof? I would hazard to point out that being Athiest (a belief system) and feeling God/Religion/Christianity should be striken from Politics and Schools, one could not claim so without exchanging one belief system (in God) for another (no God). And that by claiming such, you are stating that Athiesm (a lack of God) should be in place of teaching of God? I'm mostly bouncing ideas here.

While you view Religion as a crutch for society, albeit a relevant one by what you've said, do you not see the "crutch" you also have in holding such an arrogant stand point?


*EDIT*

And let me point out, I don't think that God should be taught in schools per se. Just coming from an anti-religion religion and stating that all religion should be left out of Politics and Schools is a bit of a grey area.

I believe politics should be based on law and schools based on science. I dont think the bible has any place in public funded schools. I do not think Atheism is a belief system, it simply means "with out god" not against, but with out. I suggest not teaching without god vs with god, teach something usefull!

I do not look at my view points as arrogant, nor do I use it as a crutch, I see it as standing on my own, where God may me helping others to stand. If you need help there is no shame in getting help, wether it be from god or from social services, I dont care, just get the help you need to make you a functional part of society.

[z31maniac]

OH and where the fuck did I blame God for anything?

You are a presumptive, welfare accepting little twat aren't you?

[Farbin Kaiber]

It's not "blindly" if you feel you see something where others don't. Think walking in the dark vs. walking in the dark with night vision goggles.

[z31maniac]

Who claimed he was picking sides? I'll treat you the same way I treat most hostile anti-faith/Christian's. Did I say that? I didn't say that.

I, in contrast to yourself, don't blame God for everything while claiming I don't believe in him. I'll be the first to admit I don't know how things work or what is and is not truly the after life. Any Christian, any real Christian knows they don't have the answers. Knows and questions their faith in God. Faith without question is not faith, it is blind devotion to the ignorantly unseen. You say, there's not cold hard facts to support God. Yet you discount anyone's personal experiences or life experience as "crazy" more often than not. What life experience do you have that discounts God?

Listen, I'm not trying to push any of my beliefs on anyone here as it seems the anti-Christian's are pushing their agenda. So, take a tip from that "crazy mumbo jumbo book", the Bible, and take the log from your own eye before trying to remove the speck of dust in someone elses.

No hostility here.

If believing that Grandpa is waiting for you up in the heavens after you die helps you be a better person and get through the day, more power to you.

You are the one that berated Lee's "atheist" point of view as being steeped in ignorance and blind faith, so keep in mind who threw the proverbial first stone.

[briansjacobs]

Who claimed he was picking sides? I'll treat you the same way I treat most hostile anti-faith/Christian's. Did I say that? I didn't say that.

I, in contrast to yourself, don't blame God for everything while claiming I don't believe in him. I'll be the first to admit I don't know how things work or what is and is not truly the after life. Any Christian, any real Christian knows they don't have the answers. Knows and questions their faith in God. Faith without question is not faith, it is blind devotion to the ignorantly unseen. You say, there's not cold hard facts to support God. Yet you discount anyone's personal experiences or life experience as "crazy" more often than not. What life experience do you have that discounts God?

Listen, I'm not trying to push any of my beliefs on anyone here as it seems the anti-Christian's are pushing their agenda. So, take a tip from that "crazy mumbo jumbo book", the Bible, and take the log from your own eye before trying to remove the speck of dust in someone elses.

Every one is trying to push an agenda, you, me, them. Dont refer to it like it is a bad thing. If you were not trying to push a belief, you would not respond, you would simply skip to the next topic. And following blindy without out question is almost the definition of Faith. That is why it is easier for believers than non believers, they can simply say have faith, non believers need some sort of proof.