Israel just doesn't get it...

[Aptyp]

The Koran was brought by the Angels and given to the prophet. The original Koran still exist and remains at Mecca where the muslims go for hajj. Its actually the rock of Abraham to be exact.

Show me where it says in the Koran to kill and force. I am sure it says to defend yourself,religion and your land. What you read in history class and what we read in the Koran is different I am sure of that. The story of the prophet in history class and the hadith is much different. Also there was an article as the greatest man ever lived or the most respected. I believe it was him, he accomplished and still accomplishing so much that no one ever has or will. Islam is the youngest religion but the fastest growing.

I'm sorry I'm taking into account Mohamed's actual life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquests

For a holy person to destroy other people's temples and force populations into a monotheistic deity. Yeah, he's a prophet of love and tranquility.

I am also 100% sure of what is in the Koran, and interpretations are just as wide as all other interpretations of religious documents vary.

Besides, in your description up top, you took a moral high ground, by stating something that's supposed to be taken by faith as a fact. Very narrow minded and that's how all the conflicts start...

[ck_taft325is]

Duh. Have you checked the newly published list of forbidden items? Since when canned fruits, chocolate or coriander are weapons of mass destruction? Starvation of civil populations is illegal according to the Geneva convention. And this is exactly what the blockade is doing. But not only food is highly restricted, so are fuels, raw material and electricity. Therefore, no economy is possible.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8654337.stm

A criminal blockade aimed at weakening Hamas, which was a creation of Israel and the US to oppose Fatah. Talk about another major backfire. Any extra pressure performed by Israel on Palestinians gives reasons to "terrorist" organizations (or freedom fighters, depending on which side you are) to exist. Israel's behaviour will soon officially be recognized as Apartheid.

Hey Lee, you've got some shit on your soap box... oh wait.

[Massive Lee]

Back to palestinians though... No one is stopping aid from reaching them. Israel just wants to make sure that weapons and guns don't reach them.

Duh. Have you checked the newly published list of forbidden items? Since when canned fruits, chocolate or coriander are weapons of mass destruction? Starvation of civil populations is illegal according to the Geneva convention. And this is exactly what the blockade is doing. But not only food is highly restricted, so are fuels, raw material and electricity. Therefore, no economy is possible.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8654337.stm

A criminal blockade aimed at weakening Hamas, which was a creation of Israel and the US to oppose Fatah. Talk about another major backfire. Any extra pressure performed by Israel on Palestinians gives reasons to "terrorist" organizations (or freedom fighters, depending on which side you are) to exist. Israel's behaviour will soon officially be recognized as Apartheid.

[ak-]

correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Koran say somewhere that when Muslims meet someone who isn't Muslim, they should convert them or kill them?

No, lol.

You're referring to the sixth pillar of Islam which is a later addition to the five basic tenets, far from a mainstream view, and actively discouraged. It's pretty much what fundie evangelism is to Christianity.

And to add on to what kronus is saying, there is no such thing as a 6th pillar.

[ak-]

or i can admit i was wrong, and that i learned that i dont know as much as i thought since then.

also go fuck yourself.

If this is true, then I have no problem saying sorry.

[z31maniac]

The activists, completely harmless right?

http://bigjournalism.com/oceren/2010/06/09/journalism-as-propaganda-reuters-withdraws-cropped-anti-israel-photos-inserts-biased-anti-israel-captions-instead/

[Farbin Kaiber]

I say split the land in half and live like cousins again. Whats so hard about that. Right???

The hard part is both cousins want The Dome of the Rock/Solomon's Temple.

[sonnyqm3]

Aptyp,

i dont know where you get you facts from about the Koran and Prophet Muhammed Pbuh. there is a difference between the Koran and the Hadith, hadith is a book based on the prophets preachings and ways of life. The Koran was brought by the Angels and given to the prophet. The original Koran still exist and remains at Mecca where the muslims go for hajj. Its actually the rock of Abraham to be exact.

Show me where it says in the Koran to kill and force. I am sure it says to defend yourself,religion and your land. What you read in history class and what we read in the Koran is different I am sure of that. The story of the prophet in history class and the hadith is much different. Also there was an article as the greatest man ever lived or the most respected. I believe it was him, he accomplished and still accomplishing so much that no one ever has or will. Islam is the youngest religion but the fastest growing.

I am sure we have some similarities about Jesus and his preaching. But I am sure that Islam teaches us a lil more precise since he was one of the great prophets oh the almighty Allah=god and the Koran was never altered. He is also our savior/messiah. His real name is Isa (pbuh) just for the record. We believe that he is still alive and will come down to defeat the anti christ/dajaal.

We also believe that moses was the only prophet that ever came close to talking to god, although Muhammed came very close as well. But ya Moses was the only prophet that was the most closest to god. Thats why his people were the chosen ones, he did that not to upset Moses. But Moses's people turned their backs on god. God then said that they will have everything but a state. I guess thats hasnt changed and I dont think it will, just saying that from what I have read and seen in history of the Jews trying to establish a state.

I say split the land in half and live like cousins again. Whats so hard about that. Right???

[Aptyp]

First of all, saying Koran hasn't been altered from original text is like saying great writers don't edit research into their books.

Mohamed was well versed in Torah and Bible before "speaking" with god and writing Koran. He was a merchant by trade and crossed into "holly lands" in great frequency. So he remixed his theological views and came with vengeance to convert others. Following up his life's work, Islam went on a conquest through Africa all the way into Spain.

Islam catches a lot of grief based on the fact that their entire religion's existence is well historically documented. For a religion of peace, Islam is like a recovering alcoholic falling off a bandwagon every so often.

So please, do not defend Islam as it's holy. It's full of problems and shit behavior just like Judaism and Christianity. How could it be better? It adopted hierarchy and ideology and we all know sequels and remixes are almost never better than originals.


Back to palestinians though... No one is stopping aid from reaching them. Israel just wants to make sure that weapons and guns don't reach them. It's not hard to understand. When someone launches 20 rockets per day, you kind of want to limit that.
Yes, palestinians are struggling now. No human deserves what is happening in Gaza prison. BUT PALESTINE ELECTED IT'S OWN WARDEN. How can a region seeking peace and resolve when they elect Hamas? It doesn't make sense to elect a group that uses guns to uphold it's control over already impoverished population. If Gaza was to revolt against Hamas for it's liberty, I promise that Israel and USA would stand side by side with palestinians in peace efforts. It saddens me that so many have to pay the price, but that's what gaza chose on their own to distaste of almost every country around them (Saudi, Egypt, Israel).

[sonnyqm3]

correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Koran say somewhere that when Muslims meet someone who isn't Muslim, they should convert them or kill them?

no thats not correct. When I meet a non muslim I treat him same as I treat my muslim brothers and sisters. It is my duty as a muslim to preach my religion to non muslims so they can understand what Islam is really about. Not what the media tells them. MOST OF MY FRIENDS ARE NON MUSLIMS. I say 90% is non muslim.

If I was to date or marry a non muslim then its my duty to teach that person about Islam but cannot force them to convert. A person must love,respect and accept the religion in their hearts. It should never be forced upon anyone to convert to Islam. But at the same time it is my duty as father to raise my children as muslims. When the child is old enough and he/she doesnt think Islam is right for them then that his/her choice. As a father I did my duty....

[kronus]

correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Koran say somewhere that when Muslims meet someone who isn't Muslim, they should convert them or kill them?

You're referring to the sixth pillar of Islam which is a later addition to the five basic tenets, far from a mainstream view, and actively discouraged. It's pretty much what fundie evangelism is to Christianity.

[Alkasquawlik]

dvs909, you're a fucking idiot.

correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Koran say somewhere that when Muslims meet someone who isn't Muslim, they should convert them or kill them?

[dvs909]

(From the "Shit hits the fan in Fort Hood, Texas. 50 casualties." thread)

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=153637

dvs909, you're a fucking idiot.

or i can admit i was wrong, and that i learned that i dont know as much as i thought since then.

also go fuck yourself.

[LBJefferies]

What the fuck does it matter? Oil is running out and a solar flare is going to hit the planet frying all electronic equipment. Society is going to collapse. It doesn't fucking matter.

[ak-]

For the first part I agree with what you say, I am Christian, but I incorporate a lot of Jewish and Muslim beliefs and ethics into my faith, and I agree that the Koran is the only non-altered book.

As for hating the Jews because they killed Christ, I think that is pretty simple, it isn't very moral to hate all Jews because of the death of Christ, hell some would even thank them for it as Jesus had to die in order to fulfill his lot in life as the suffering Messiah. Even the guy that stabbed Jesus with a spear, Longinus, is revered as a Saint by the Catholics.

Finally, I don't know why the Jews get shitted on everywhere they go, seems like being God's chosen people isn't really working out that well for them. Maybe they are getting theirs for turning their back on God so many times, but regardless they always seem to pull through, which is more than you can say for a lot of other groups of people that went through genocide, slavery, etc for 3000 years, so maybe God is on their side, who knows.

Christianity, broken down and looked at very coldly, is a social tool. and a tool just like anything else isn't any better or worse than those who exercise control over it.

Islam i have a few issues with a few passages, but i don't know enough islamic theology to know how to interpret them

(From the "Shit hits the fan in Fort Hood, Texas. 50 casualties." thread)

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=153637

islam encourages the murder, torture etc. of anyone non muslim

dvs909, you're a fucking idiot.