Who pays taxes

[Kershaw]

and honestly... 50% of 2 million is still 1 million. i think 99.9999% of the world would be very happy to live on 1 million a year. i know i would. and let's be honest, is the guy making 2 million a year really that talented to earn a 1000% increase in pay than a guy making 200k (still nice) a year? is he 1000% more talented? does he get 1000% more work done? i dont think so. it's just greed.

and greed is why every empire falls eventually. greed at the personal level, finding loopholes in the system. and since the rich make the laws.... well, it just doesnt seem very balanced.

i always cracked up about the right wing, because in my experience, they are either blue collar workers or very well to do. i never saw much in the middle ground. (might just be my state, MD.) i always thought it was a bit sad to see blue collar workers (same job for 20 years, still making 40k) defending the right of the riches to not pay taxes so they can "create more jobs for America!" so sad..

[dirtysix]

And the left seem to think that in the Utopian world that this shouldn't exist. That there shouldn't be people on the "losing" end. The right thinks that if you work hard you will be successful on your own and the left thinks that if you try to work hard then systems should be in place that keep you from being worse off than anyone else. That a street sweeper should be making $50k.

Cant say I see a lot of 'left wing, utopian agenda' here.
Since when was pure free market theory the new centrist viewpoint?

[87e30]

and greed is why every empire falls eventually. greed at the personal level, finding loopholes in the system. and since the rich make the laws.... well, it just doesnt seem very balanced.

What makes a less "well-off" person not greedy for wanting to redistribute (take) wealthy people's money?

I wish the data was out there for what exactly millionaires do with their money. I find it very hard to believe that they don't invest large amounts of it into bonds, securities, and real estate... all things which do help keep the economy going. /random injection

[750]

$20k/yr is NOT always an entry level job and in most cases for the lower and lower middle class 20k/yr is something they had to work for many years to achieve. The motivation argument is both ridiculous and small minded.

I was doing my best to be nice and not call you fruit loops that come time mind when I read your posts. If you so want to stay at lower/lower middle class more power to you, just don't stay in the way of the ones that do not. Which is where your ideas for taxes firmly rest.

[Kershaw]

What makes a less "well-off" person not greedy for wanting to redistribute (take) wealthy people's money?

i guess im biased because i've never needed money and always try to help out those less fortunate than me?

its the principle of the matter. there are so many people in the us that live in abject poverty. i really think that is completely unacceptable for a world superpower. especially when the wealthiest individuals dont even pay their required share of the taxes. which is too small of a percentage to begin with, imo.

[mar1t1me]

Isn't it though.

So that trillion or so of non-budgeted spending with no increase in tax revenues had nothing to do with it?

[z31maniac]

I wish the data was out there for what exactly millionaires do with their money. I find it very hard to believe that they don't invest large amounts of it into bonds, securities, and real estate... all things which do help keep the economy going. /random injection

Then why does the Fed have to continue with QE2, OR buying up $600 billion in bonds/real estate..........oh, because the investors aren't buying it, and why should they?

Wall Street is created the mess and the Fed took it off their hands basically without penalty.

[Schnitzer318is]

I was doing my best to be nice and not call you fruit loops that come time mind when I read your posts. If you so want to stay at lower/lower middle class more power to you, just don't stay in the way of the ones that do not. Which is where your ideas for taxes firmly rest.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion... and my wife and I are far from lower class tax brackets. I am just able to look outside my own life and put myself in the shoes of others less fortunate, which you seem completely unable to do. Thus, the small minded remark.

Again, the motivational position is bunk and is only pushed forward by those unable to believe that working hard your entire life might still only get you 30 or 40k a year. My father in law is about to retire after 40 years at his employer and my wife and I make quite a bit more than he does. Was he less dedicated or complacent? I think not.

So that trillion or so of non-budgeted spending with no increase in tax revenues had nothing to do with it?

I was agreeing with you, sorry I did not make that clear. ;)

[mrsleeve]

I am just dumbfounded with the lack of common sense on display here. I am also disgusted with the amount of class envy and "since they make so much they dont need it, so the govt should take it from them and give to me" just disgust's me.

I dont really know where to begin or how to even respond anymore.

I guess I give up you guys win.

[z31maniac]

^Answer post #37

[Kershaw]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion... and my wife and I are far from lower class tax brackets. I am just able to look outside my own life and put myself in the shoes of others less fortunate, which you seem completely unable to do. Thus, the small minded remark.

Again, the motivational position is bunk and is only pushed forward by those unable to believe that working hard your entire life might still only get you 30 or 40k a year. My father in law is about to retire after 40 years at his employer and my wife and I make quite a bit more than he does. Was he less dedicated or complacent? I think not.

:up:

this exactly.

the lack of compassion for others by some posters is remarkable in this thread.

i know it will all change, the standards for the lower classes have been improving slowly but surely for the last few thousand years. especially in the last few hundred. im not saying everyone should live at the same level, just that we should strive to eliminate poverty. single mother, 3 kids, struggling to put food on the table? i dont know how anyone can say she needs to work harder.

[mrsleeve]

^
Compassion really thats what you are equating taxes too. Feeding the pig is not an act of compassion Donating to my neighbors that are struggling, or to any plethora of charities to help those in need is COMPASSION. Not taking my hard earned wealth from me at the point of a sword to fund unneeded programs and give to those unwilling to help them selves.

I had to drag myself up by my boot straps to get where I am today, I didnt have much help along the way either.


maniac
Why did the fed do that????

Just think on it a while, and get back to me. the end is neigh

[z31maniac]

^So then it hasn't worked, correct?

If it had worked, the end wouldn't be nigh.

[Ryan Stewart]

Cant say I see a lot of 'left wing, utopian agenda' here.
Since when was pure free market theory the new centrist viewpoint?

Nothing about pure free market, there is no such thing and just looking at the current data we are so far from it anyway. Its just the idea that the rich, who already pay more, should pay more because we wouldn't want a country where someone is burdened. Someone will always be burdened and someone wont. Hell, in the socialist nations its, in many ways, more extreme because instead of the wealthy being those who are at the whim of the govt the wealthy is the govt.

It is not class warfare... it is simple economics. Flat tax will not work because removing that $2000 from the $20,000/yr guys will hurt the economy more than removing even 50% from guys making $2,000,000. There are many hundreds of thousands more people making the $20,000/yr. So you are cutting that demographics spending power much more than the millionaires.

I was responding to fairness. There is nothing fair about saying "you can handle more so I am taking more." Already those who can handle more are paying considerably more, its just a way for the poor to reduce their burden at the expense of "someone else."

[Ryan Stewart]

:up:

this exactly.

the lack of compassion for others by some posters is remarkable in this thread.

i know it will all change, the standards for the lower classes have been improving slowly but surely for the last few thousand years. especially in the last few hundred. im not saying everyone should live at the same level, just that we should strive to eliminate poverty. single mother, 3 kids, struggling to put food on the table? i dont know how anyone can say she needs to work harder.

a. like said taxes have nothing to do with compassion and neither do govt programs. They are sold with that in mind but compassion is voluntary. Its also effective, something govt programs have yet to prove they can be.

b. There are always legit reasons for helping people but, again, nothing in our govt ever works the way it should. Before we start reaching deeper into our pockets we should investigate why the current programs, which dont seem to satisfy anyone, need more money.