Ahh yes, one of THOSE church vans

[dinanm3atl]

You must not get out much to be blunt. We have a church about 30 minutes from me that rivals the Georgia Dome. I call it the Jesus dome. Two churches that are within TEN MINUTES of each other have LARGE complexes. We are talking acreage in VERY expensive areas. These churches are ADDING ON and buying MORE land... again in a very expensive area. Others around are going out of business. Shutting down. Shoring up. The churches don't seem to be affected.

Ever been to Florida? When I visit my cousin we play basketball in church's 2 nights a week and then on Saturday. They all have separate 'gyms' and their courts are far nicer and more well equipped than my high school was.

I understand what you are saying and believe what you are saying is true to an extent. However in my experience the small building, parking in a grass lot and praising Jesus is not the norm from my personal experience. Going on missions. International trips. Etc. This seems to be the quest for many.



One of them... they even have an 'office' not connected. Inside is filled with huge TVs. Stadium seating. They could put on a damn nice concern in there.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=perimeter+church+johns+creek&hl=en&ll=34.013227,-84.19423&spn=0.006981,0.013937&safe=off&fb=1&gl=us&cid=0,0,10255035711056283583&t=h&z=17&vpsrc=6

[FunfGan]

Well see as I said, where you're from is on the "bible belt" and florida is one of the rich areas. I can assure you that around here, there are no "mega churches" of any sort. Everybody thinks that the church I attend is the largest church they've seen around here, and we maybe have 1k people at an absolutely PACKED service for the adults/ main service.

And out of curiosity, what exactly is wrong with missions trips? Its a more worthy and more selfless cause then simply attending church every week. They're about reaching out, and helping those less fortunate...

[Nick_S]

^Update: People are trying to have a rational discussion about religion, which is impossible, because religion falls outside the realm of reason and logic.

[dinanm3atl]

Well see as I said, where you're from is on the "bible belt" and florida is one of the rich areas. I can assure you that around here, there are no "mega churches" of any sort. Everybody thinks that the church I attend is the largest church they've seen around here, and we maybe have 1k people at an absolutely PACKED service for the adults/ main service.

And out of curiosity, what exactly is wrong with missions trips? Its a more worthy and more selfless cause then simply attending church every week. They're about reaching out, and helping those less fortunate...

Mission trips? Is about control and 'spreading the word of god'. I know that makes me look or sound bad but let's actually look at it and think about.

Go to a Third World Country where the people have literally nothing. Tell them that Jesus/God brought all these people here and more importantly cash. They will get them fresh water. Food. Shelter. Etc.

Hrmmmm - I could go there with some friends(and money/man power) and tell them Odin brought all of this 'stuff' and they need to sacrifice goats... what do you think they would do?


I understand what you are saying and trying to express. I do. In my personal experience though your take on Christianity is not the norm. Bible belt or not... there were massive churches in Chicago when I lived there as well. With real estate in areas that cost 500K to get in a small home. My experience growing up in a Christian household and now having Christian friends has formed my opinion on it.

[FunfGan]

But why would we go and spend our time, money and effort to help those in the first place? Would it be better if Athiests/ a secular group went and gave all the credit to themselves? If It was just for my honor or glory there is almost no way I'd be willing to spend 2 weeks of my summer to go out and help people. Im somewhat generous by nature, but not that much so. I go out to spread the word because I want others to know the love of God. Call me crazy, looney or whatever you will but that is what I believe. Yes, I'm 17 and you will still claim my parents "brainwashed" me or whatever, but they don't force me to attend church, read my bible or volunteer. I'm not denying the fact that many are raised that way, but that is not my experience. Also, most of those people who were forced by their parents denounce the faith as soon as they move out of the house.

On a slightly unrelated note, I respect your ability to hold a decent conversation without e-yelling or just plain attacking religion. I understand you don't agree w/ my beliefs, but you have the decency to remain calm haha.

[KenC]

But why would we go and spend our time, money and effort to help those in the first place? Would it be better if Athiests/ a secular group went and gave all the credit to themselves? If It was just for my honor or glory there is almost no way I'd be willing to spend 2 weeks of my summer to go out and help people. Im somewhat generous by nature, but not that much so.

That's one of the most pathetic things I've ever read. You see no reason, other than appeasing God, to provide assistance to others?

I spend 12hrs/week volunteering, as I have for the past three years, because I enjoy helping those less fortunate than myself. It's a rewarding experience for me. I also find the idea of a God logically unfathomable.

[FunfGan]

That's one of the most pathetic things I've ever read. You see no reason, other than appeasing God, to provide assistance to others?

I spend 12hrs/week volunteering, as I have for the past three years, because I enjoy helping those less fortunate than myself. It's a rewarding experience for me. I also find the idea of a God logically unfathomable.

If you read what I said, I said I love doing volunteer work, but to spend 2 weeks in the sweltering heat building and working on things for people is something that is hard for most people, including myself, to want to do.

[KenC]

I read it twice. It doesn't mention that.

Don't do it if you don't want to. There isn't a lot of "honor an glory" in volunteer work. And if that's what you're looking for, then you're doing it for the wrong reasons. You're also asserting that two weeks is some sort of huge sacrifice.

[dinanm3atl]

His reply is the type that just leads to threads going no where. Oh wells.

My reply to that is just like I said before. In my opinion "God" has nothing to do with it. Church took donations or single wealthy people funded the trip, food, travel, expenses and building materials. I did a mission trip once and it really set forth my path that I have followed no on my opinion. Trip was funded by a couple. We went and built a church. Got water running. Etc. Every chance that was available we were praying. Thanking God. God had zero to do with it. Essentially a wealthy couple funded this and that was that. However the message of God, God's love and what not was preached to these people and you could tell they were thankful for it and believed.

As I said though if the wealthy couple were pagans we could have convinced them that Odin gave them all of these wonderful things. It is a way to increase the base. Increase the believers in a way that is essentially buying them in my eyes. Think about if you're living conditions were as they were on your mission and a group of people came and told you their "God" made all of this happen... well what would be your reaction? It's not a hard concept in my eyes to get to that conclusion.

Going to a soup kitchen and helping people in your community is far more glorious in my eyes than volunteering via a church. With the church there is always a mission going on and that is creating more believers. More of a base. More power.

I grew up much like you. Look at what you believed when you were younger. You are a child. You believe whatever your parents tell you. If they take you to church you are going to believe. I think those with a clear mind and want to truly explore the world around them will realize much like the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Clause... Jesus/God are not real.

[FunfGan]

Wait... hold up... The easter bunny is TOTALLY real.

But seriously, I have only been on mission trips organized by my church and we pay the $400- 1000 ourselves(or through car washes and such) and we don't try to preach to the people. We just get involved with the people, if they ask why were there or who were with, we tell them. We try to be helping first, and preachers second. If they ask more, w tell them more. And again, that is purely based in my personal experience.

[cale]

On a slightly unrelated note, I respect your ability to hold a decent conversation without e-yelling or just plain attacking religion. I understand you don't agree w/ my beliefs, but you have the decency to remain calm haha.

When people try to argue things using nothing but a lack of understanding of the topic, they do not deserve decency. They deserve ridicule for their arrogance and need to accept that they are in no position to be debating the topic, ie you on science.

[Sample UF]

I just can't get over the blatant hypocrisy of the two main religion peddlers in this thread.


FunFaggin and markseven, or whatever their names are.

Claiming that their religion is truth, and that everyone else is selling a fairy tale when they're the only ones claiming that their Latin propaganda/system of control is the one and only truth.

For the most part, everyone else has been selling the possibility that they're wrong and something else may have happened. Thats too much for a Christian to comprehend though, lol.

Religious people are comical at best. Live your lives as a brainwashed fool, I will just lol in your face at every given opportunity.

/out.

[FunfGan]

Good, and you should shave bro your all face beard is looking wack ;) And we never said we had all the answers bro, or that were right. We, just like you are just having a debate. And never said we had all the answers did we? We never said EVERYTHING in this world makes sense, did we? No. You keep claiming we said that.

[kingston]

SampleUF, I'll miss your contributions to the thread. Your anger, your insults, your lack of ability to be open minded.

Regarding your modification of my post, I have to tell you that you are incorrect. I have not always 'thought' there was a higher power as you suggested. I have always KNOWN. Some things you just know.

For everyone suggesting that modern science has everything figured out...you are kidding, right? We know so little still that it's ridiculous. We have not unlocked the secrets of the universe; not even close. Your reality is defined by your percepcion. As is mine.

[Sample UF]

SampleUF, I'll miss your contributions to the thread. Your anger, your insults, your lack of ability to be open minded.

Regarding your modification of my post, I have to tell you that you are incorrect. I have not always 'thought' there was a higher power as you suggested. I have always KNOWN. Some things you just know.

For everyone suggesting that modern science has everything figured out...you are kidding, right? We know so little still that it's ridiculous. We have not unlocked the secrets of the universe; not even close. Your reality is defined by your percepcion. As is mine.

Sorry but my modification of your post was correct. You don't know anything about that topic, you just perceive things that way.

To truly know something, you would have to have hard evidence. Where is it?

Example.

Things we know: Water is comprised of the chemical formula H2O, we know that colonized countries have a horrible history of slavery and genocide, we know BMW is the manufacturer that built 2002's, E30's etc.

Things we might like to think/perceive: E30's are the best car ever, Pizza is a nice tasting food, alcohol is more acceptable than weed because it's legal, some higher power created this universe.


See the difference? If not, you fail.


Also, you fail with your garbage about me not being open minded. Religion is religion, they're all the same. Unproven.


I've already stated that this earth/universe could have come into existence by any means, that of which I don't know. Will not claim to know and will not preach how I know the truth and try to spread it onto others(like funfGan's mission trips).

The reality is; regardless of whether or not a god/higher power/aliens/buddha/Vishnu exists, Christianity is a system of control, brought into place by Latin rulers when they wanted to abolish paganism. They basically ripped off paganism and replaced the sun with a fictional zombie super hero.

I don't care if you want to believe a higher power exists, however, if you're believing ancient books are the 100% truth and wish to spread their bigoted message across the globe, then you're truly fucked and the one with a closed mind.