Ahh yes, one of THOSE church vans

[cale]

Theists don't accept that knowledge of a deity requires anything more than " I just know", which is their demise. You don't fucking know, you're just damn hopeful. Do you go into a court room and expect to be able to use "I just know" as a reasonable defence? Of course not, because reality doesn't accept speculations of knowledge as truth...except in religion, which is why it is the most backasswards bullshit school of thought conceivable.

For everyone suggesting that modern science has everything figured out...you are kidding, right?

For the umptenth time for the scientific illiterates out there, no one is claiming science knows everything! We're simply saying it's a better patch to knowledge than hopes and dreams (religion).

[FunfGan]

So how are religions all the same? That seems to fit more in the like/ percieve category. Much more so. You may think religions are all the same in the way you believe bmw's are the best car. See? YOU fail. Also, truly fucked? Again, how many of the founding fathers of the US were christian/ had christian beliefs/ believed in a higher "god" diety? I know you're not American, but surely you can see how much better the early days of our country were compared to the secularly based, un-godly, un-Christianized American Society of today.

[Eecen]

I know you're not American, but surely you can see how much better the early days of our country were compared to the secularly based, un-godly, un-Christianized American Society of today.

Really?

[Eecen]

Burning whitches
slaves
killing natives


All I can come up with off hand...but Really?




If s doctor saves your life with some crazy surgery, or a robotic surgeon does an extremely complicated procedure on you, saving your life do you;

Thanks god or thank the surgeon/inventor?

[Sample UF]

So how are religions all the same? That seems to fit more in the like/ percieve category. Much more so. You may think religions are all the same in the way you believe bmw's are the best car. See? YOU fail. Also, truly fucked? Again, how many of the founding fathers of the US were christian/ had christian beliefs/ believed in a higher "god" diety? I know you're not American, but surely you can see how much better the early days of our country were compared to the secularly based, un-godly, un-Christianized American Society of today.

Relgions are all the same because they're an UNPROVEN train of thought that's only back bone is "you got to have faith".

Ohhh, yeah. Sure, your Country was so much better when Christians were burning atheists/agnostics/people of other faiths because they were 'witches'. Your country was so much better when you were enslaving/killing and lynching brown people.

[FunfGan]

Socialistic ideas rampant, the ability to kill living persons, openly Socialist persons in power.

[cale]

Hahaha do you have any idea of what socialism is? Because using it to define the last few posts gave me quite the chuckle, are you REALLY as dense as you like to make yourself out to be?

All religions are the same in the fact that they rely on faith instead of empirical evidence for support.

I know you're not American, but surely you can see how much better the early days of our country were compared to the secularly based, un-godly, un-Christianized American Society of today.

Your country is still comprised of an overwhelming majority of Christians and a much more overwhelming number of theists to atheists, so no....I won't concede that. The problems your country is facing are the result of the actions of many, and both theists and atheists have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar. You believe a nation is better when living under fear of reprimand from a deity was not voluntary but enforced by the government? Punishments for freedom of thought didn't end in europe, I suggest you pick up some history books while you're at the library...you may need to grab a cart to carry all the books you require.

[assoutE12]

Burning whitches
slaves
killing natives


All I can come up with off hand...but Really?




If s doctor saves your life with some crazy surgery, or a robotic surgeon does an extremely complicated procedure on you, saving your life do you;

Thanks god or thank the surgeon/inventor?

Jesus, after I read that I had to take a second to think about if I was a lot more drunk than I thought, nope I've only had my first beer and s doctors;

save lives.

[FunfGan]

Hahaha do you have any idea of what socialism is? Because using it to define the last few posts gave me quite the chuckle, are you REALLY as dense as you like to make yourself out to be?

All religions are the same in the fact that they rely on faith instead of empirical evidence for support.



Your country is still comprised of an overwhelming majority of Christians and a much more overwhelming number of theists to atheists, so no....I won't concede that. The problems your country is facing are the result of the actions of many, and both theists and atheists have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar. You believe a nation is better when living under fear of reprimand from a deity was not voluntary but enforced by the government? Punishments for freedom of thought didn't end in europe, I suggest you pick up some history books while you're at the library...you may need to grab a cart to carry all the books you require.

Yes, Its a thing called Social Security. Taking money from those who have rightfully earned it, to those who have done to earn it, and have no incentive to because they are being handed money for doing nothing. Why would they work? Its spreading of the wealth bud.

And theres a difference between Christians and "christians". When asked their religion, an overwhelming majority of Americans will respond with Christianity or Catholicism as their answer simply because of how they were raised. Does that mean crap about their real beliefs or true morals? You bet it doesn't. In the beginning, our education system was nothing w/ out the aid of morals of Christianity and the like religions. But now- a- days, were trying to keep a moralized society, but w/ out the Christian base from which they first came from. So where do those morals and laws come from when there is no standard? Our laws were set up and conceived because we knew and accepted man was of a sinful nature, not its all this "naturally perfect, societally perverted" crap.

[mrsleeve]

Burning whitches
slaves
killing natives


All I can come up with off hand...but Really?

All not exclusive to early American history, or to Christianity for that matter.........

So your point is what exactly????

[cale]

And theres a difference between Christians and "christians". When asked their religion, an overwhelming majority of Americans will respond with Christianity or Catholicism as their answer simply because of how they were raised. Does that mean crap about their real beliefs or true morals? You bet it doesn't. In the beginning, our education system was nothing w/ out the aid of morals of Christianity and the like religions. But now- a- days, were trying to keep a moralized society, but w/ out the Christian base from which they first came from. So where do those morals and laws come from when there is no standard? Our laws were set up and conceived because we knew and accepted man was of a sinful nature, not its all this "naturally perfect, societally perverted" crap.

Great rant...and? I'm not here to argue morality, but I can tell you I am a perfectly functioning member of society despite my beliefs on your god and bible. Your country is choosing to move away from "true christianity" as you put it, it isn't atheism that is changing things. Societies progress, it's what they do. People are doing so on their own free will, and despite your opinions on which way they are headed morally the 1st world nations are moving forward in a positive way. The bible is a tool to subdue into obedience, it teaches fear and oppression to control the masses through the guise of conditional love of a deity who'll punish you should you act against his unseen desires.

[mrsleeve]

Govt and Religion are 2 sides of the same evil, getting the masses to submit to the will of the few, normaly under the threat of punishment and the tip of a spear. A little bit of both is acceptable and is necessary for polite society to work, but we have seen the ills of what happens when one has too much power, or are one in the same. Either way the populace at large are the ones who always suffer and greatly so.

[kingston]

Sorry but my modification of your post was correct. You don't know anything about that topic, you just perceive things that way.

To truly know something, you would have to have hard evidence. Where is it?

Example.

Things we know: Water is comprised of the chemical formula H2O, we know that colonized countries have a horrible history of slavery and genocide, we know BMW is the manufacturer that built 2002's, E30's etc.

Things we might like to think/perceive: E30's are the best car ever, Pizza is a nice tasting food, alcohol is more acceptable than weed because it's legal, some higher power created this universe.


See the difference? If not, you fail.


Also, you fail with your garbage about me not being open minded. Religion is religion, they're all the same. Unproven.


I've already stated that this earth/universe could have come into existence by any means, that of which I don't know. Will not claim to know and will not preach how I know the truth and try to spread it onto others(like funfGan's mission trips).

The reality is; regardless of whether or not a god/higher power/aliens/buddha/Vishnu exists, Christianity is a system of control, brought into place by Latin rulers when they wanted to abolish paganism. They basically ripped off paganism and replaced the sun with a fictional zombie super hero.

I don't care if you want to believe a higher power exists, however, if you're believing ancient books are the 100% truth and wish to spread their bigoted message across the globe, then you're truly fucked and the one with a closed mind.

I love how you can simultaneously claim that you are the only person that can be right, and also claim that you are open minded. Once upon a time, we thought we knew all kinds of things (the earth was flat, spontaneous generation was real, etc, etc) that we know longer believe are true.

I have yet to have anyone suffienciently explain to me how the pressence of God can be disproved by knowing that water is made up of helium and oxygen, or that BMW made the E30. The two are not neccissarily mutually exclusive.

Let's take it a step further, shall we? You can not prove ANYTHING, because the world that YOU perceive around you is only YOUR perception of it. Show me empirical proof that all that you think you know is fact. Perhaps you are delusional, and none of the things YOU 'know' to be true, in fact are. Perhaps you are in a padded cell right now, and this is aaaaalllll in your head...

Now, understand that I'm not really saying that you are clinicly insane, merely that your reality is defined by your perception of it. Yet you 'know' that you are right on this subject, and there can be NO debating it, and that millions and millions of people all around the world are wrong. Wow.

I will tell you that my perception is that you are the biggot. You are claiming that an entire sub-group of people are idiotic, evil, conniving and controlling.

My perception is that you are also an angry, negative person. The hateful attacks against people with a different belief system than you have are what I find retarded.

A final point. You do not in fact need hard evidence to know something. I know my wife and children love me. Yet I know of no official metric to gauge this. I also know there is a higher power. If your point is that I MUST prove there is a God for it to be true, I'm afraid the opposite is also true: you MUST prove that no God exists for that to be true. Ergo, you don't KNOW that there is no God, you just believe that to be true.

As neither of these things is possible, and this forum is really just for grins, perhaps you could lighten the fuck up.

[mrsleeve]

^

You are aware that the e30 is gods chariot right ????

[cale]

If your point is that I MUST prove there is a God for it to be true, I'm afraid the opposite is also true: you MUST prove that no God exists for that to be true. Ergo, you don't KNOW that there is no God, you just believe that to be true.

So every conceivable thought no matter how ridiculous is not only admissible, but worth accepting as a valid option before evidence to the contrary is brought forth? Despite how I come across in this thread, I'm agnostic. I don't claim to have knowledge in either direction as it impossible to have such knowledge of a deity existing independent of our universe. It is however a reasonable stance to dismiss christianity or all religions completely as not knowing is the default position. You had no knowledge of god prior to first learning about religion as a child, to maintain that stance despite being exposed to the differing opinions does not need to be defended and is the ONLY stance one should take if you want to have an opinion without evidence. By your logic I can claim to know there is no higher power, and that is just as valid an argument as yours of

I also know there is a higher power.