Ahh yes, one of THOSE church vans

[cale]

As much as I hate Christianity, I'd take them in a heart beat over Liberals.

There's a serious problem in your thinking if you immediately equate conservatives to christians and liberals to atheists. It's not that black and white.

[KenC]

^ Speaking of the atheists that have respect and common decency, a few are mrsleeve, joshh and Z31Maniac. My hats is off to you boys. I know there are more, but these guys come to mind right away.

LOL he just said he "hates Christianity," and you're thanking him.

[KenC]

As long as it doesn't meddle in politics or science, I have no problem with religion. The Catholic church is one of the most charitable organizations, and does a lot of good work, especially for the indigent and homeless.

[markseven]

LOL he just said he "hates Christianity," and you're thanking him.

I've been around here and interacted with him long enough and to know what he means. And, you assume that I detest anyone that says he/she hates Christianity.

[cale]

The same organization that claim condom's go against human dignity and refuse to provide them in the countries they're actively treating HIV positive patients. We can provide you help for your disease, but we can't provide you the tools to protect yourself from contracting that disease in the first place. Yea, great morality to be found in that group.

[KenC]

The same organization that claim condom's go against human dignity and refuse to provide them in the countries they're actively treating HIV positive patients. We can provide you help for your disease, but we can't provide you the tools to protect yourself from contracting that disease in the first place. Yea, great morality to be found in that group.

I think it's pretty stupid also, but you can't expect an organization to do things against its own credo.

[mrsleeve]

As long as it doesn't meddle in politics or science, I have no problem with religion. The Catholic church is one of the most charitable organizations, and does a lot of good work, especially for the indigent and homeless.

we are finally in agreement on something. Religious organizations do much good for many people all over the world on the whole. Its the fringe groups that want to control yours and my actions for the sole reason they dont like it that is the issue.

[cale]

Is it just the fringe groups attempting to do such things though? Evangelical christians are a huge demographic when it comes to votes in the US, so I don't think you can call them a fringe group. They push ideologies which go against current laws in some states, and if they had the power would surely override those laws.

[Kershaw]

^ Speaking of the atheists that have respect and common decency, a few are mrsleeve, joshh and Z31Maniac. My hats is off to you boys. I know there are more, but these guys come to mind right away.

i didnt make the list.

[immajackuup]

If you're a scare mother fucker go to church!!!!

[markseven]

i didnt make the list.

And colslaw ;)

[mrsleeve]

Is it just the fringe groups attempting to do such things though? Evangelical christians are a huge demographic when it comes to votes in the US, so I don't think you can call them a fringe group. They push ideologies which go against current laws in some states, and if they had the power would surely override those laws.

if they had the power to do any of that, they would have by now.............................. They dont.

[markseven]

if they had the power to do any of that, they would have by now.............................. They dont.

The only issues that I am aware of are gay marriage and abortion. And these very rarely come up in Church or small groups; the focus is inward, not outward... I think some of the televangelists and people that go on the news shows make it appear that we are mobilizing, but in reality what we are doing is voting.

[Dozyproductions]

I'm not religious per say but I'm not a atheist whose a hater either. As a kid I went to youth groups and church as a kid when my parents were still in bed on sundays or watching tv on Wednesdays. I got out of it because certain things did bug me.

One was how a lot of these churches were trying to recruit younger people by associating fun with religion. I went to Hume Lake in California and they had a zip line, paintballing and all this other shit you did for the rest of the day that was wicked awesome until the end of the day everyone was like shit now we have to do the religious thing. We sang songs from current day hit lists and sang some more. Then there was the message.

On the surface that sounds fine because hell its a camp but thats exactly what pissed me off so much. It felt like such a blatant bait and switch, as if these people know the formula on how to get to certain people in and they'll do it to the T. There was no regard on how the message was being given, just as long as it was given to these young minds while they were to pre occupied to be distracted.

This same thing happens with missionaries when they go abroad and give starving people food and dying people water only if they hear the message of why God is giving them these essentials for living. I don't like mission trips, but I went more than a couple of times to Mexico to build houses and we wouldn't say a single word of preaching to these people. We were just glad to build houses for people who didn't have any, and that is the good part of religion I can stand.

I just think its a bit selfish of the organization, exactly what Cale was saying, to spread the word after you make sure to make the people you're trying to help associate Christianity with survival. Isn't it good in Gods eye just to be good people without spreading the word? Why does there have to be this mission to spread the word. Why can't people come to the religion instead of the other way around?

By now I live as a skeptic and unfortunately Christianity falls through the cracks first. Also unfortunately is that how ever much good has become because of religion just as much bad has come out too. You can't just keep saying the origin of all that bad are from the fringe groups or the crazies. You must remember that being Christian you must be the first to admit that you are a sinner, and sinners do some amazingly bad shit if they know it at the time or not. I won't say that about EVERYONE, because only Sith deal in absolutes, but its too many to shove under the carpet to be just the 'fringe'.


Edit: And to why atheists can are the ones that lash out first against religion can be explained several ways. First in this country religion is associated with almost an entire political party in which we only have two major ones. Even a lot of Democrats find it necessary to some how associate themselves with some sort of church. That means the people who are making laws have the huge potential to make some that are based off of old and new church doctrines.

Now that looks fine on the surface but that leads to the second part. No matter how much evidence or how much faith you have, If you look at Christianity (and most all other religions) rationally, then you can't support religion. People who claim to support Christianity with ration are people who've already made the leap of faith so therefore can only see it as being rational. Our scientific theories stand to ration because theories are always challenged with either new question, new reasoning or new evidence. So to wrap that up I can see why atheists can be mad about religion. Yes, some go stupidly out of their way to tear down some religious tradition that is much part of this country as their willing to admit but at the same time their anger... or to properly categorize it as fear, is that indeed Christianity can and does make it's way into legislation.

I know that some one is going to jump on that last sentence and I'll clarify this, Christian morality or code of conduct is not something new when it was put in the Bibles or even the Ten Commandments.

[herbivor]

^What he said.

I think if there were a god, scientists would be the first to discover it.