Occupy Wall Street

[Dozyproductions]

Misleading figures are misleading. The population more than doubled in that time frame. Ergo, the total percentage on average has gone down.

The chick with the nose ring and tattoos on her neck that doesn't have a job better not be wondering why nobody wants to hire her. I sure as hell wouldn't.

The population doubled and the unemployment has quadrupled but the average has still gone down?

[agile30]

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh08TGU2n2282aKE2S

[priapism]

The population doubled and the unemployment has quadrupled but the average has still gone down?

More than doubled. Pop was 123MM in 1940. On average, it has gone down, excepting this precipitous spike. Did the chart go back to the last time things were this bad, in 1937? Of course not. The chart is misleading.

[mrsleeve]

How comfortable will you be saying that when you're 63, within two years to retire, and suddenly you get fired to be replaced by a college student. With no company retirement plan and being 'un-hireable', what would your attitude be then? And please answer me with some thing that doesn't borderline the idealism of these lame-O protesters.

Your lack of planing (for your retirement) does not constitute an emergency on my part.

Well that should not happen to me, I have been saving for my retirement since I was about 17(product or growing up raised with a large influence of depression era grandparents and Great aunt and uncle) and if all goes well I will 100% retired by 55-57 if not sooner. If not I am going to have to work in some function until I am dead, just like many of our parents generation are going to have too. I have been saving 1/3-1/2 of my net pay for retirement for a very very long time (on top of traditional defined benefit pension plans). I send a check once a month and forget about it, have done so for nearly 15 years, I can be semi retired, in about 5-7 more years, to the point I can pick and chose the jobs I want and dont want. Why is that possible, because I have been saving and saving and saving most of my life.

Yeah Yeah best laid plans blahh blahh blahh. I have learned the lessons of too much debt, and no Liquid savings the hard way. I have seen this very situation happening to some member's of my family (inlaws mainly), and we will take care of our own as we always do. Its not for you or the govt to worry about taking care of them, its our responsibility to take care of each other and our families .

[Dozyproductions]

More than doubled. Pop was 123MM in 1940. On average, it has gone down, excepting this precipitous spike. Did the chart go back to the last time things were this bad, in 1937? Of course not. The chart is misleading.

I was just reading from about 1950 to the most recent. (in 1950 we had around 150,000,000.)

Your lack of planing (for your retirement) does not constitute an emergency on my part.

Well that wont happen to me, I have been saving for my retirement since I was about 17(product or growing up raised with a large influence of depression era grandparents and Great aunt and uncle) , and if all goes well I will 100% retired by 55-57 if not sooner. If not I am going to have to work in some function until I am dead, just like many of our parents generation are going to have too.


Yeah Yeah best laid plans blahh blahh blahh.

Don't get me wrong, I fully respect what you've have smartly done your ENTIRE life to be able to get where you want to go. But even that can find its way back to our circumstance discussion, which I still believe is playable.

To get back more on topic of this thread though is this. You have a right to make money, you have a right to enjoy that money. The issue is where is the line drawn when your rights inhibit the rights of others or when your success comes at the sacrifice of the many and I mean many.


I don't have the problem with business trying to keep afloat but more the realistic sense about a lot of these 'American' or 'patriotic' businesses that make their money and totally undermine the social prosperity of the majority of this country (that includes a lot of our governments current day functions/support and the likes). I know that we might ever agree on shit like this and I like that, but I have some very clear lines on what achieving prosperity looks like the moral way vs immoral way and Wall Street is often seen as the epitome of immorality.


edit:

Example: The housing bubble. Honestly, a housing bubble should theoretically never exist. There will always be a shorter supply of land and resources to make said houses. But thanks to the combined efforts of Government and corporate greed, we have such things...(trust me, at least in Cali... the housing market wont slow down because there is a shortage of buyers) It doesn't matter how much of your life you saved for your retirement, that can all be gone because of arbitrary circumstances. And I'm not even talking about irresponsible people who live beyond their means. And even though you can make the argument of people need to be smarter about these things... think about it also in this sense. In other situations you can honestly tell a person couldn't have known any better. Even though in buying a house thats not nearly as fool proof, think about how we are raised as a society (not just you) and how we're constantly bombarded and fed some crazy socially engineered bull shit for what we need. We all have and NEED credit cards and most of us go on with our lives thinking that its good to have one to build credit and yadda etc. The truth of the matter though is that through human instinct/behavior and brilliant marketing, the majority of us think that we NEED to accept this sort of financial slavery. Even though Im Polish, and trust me we Pole's understand the monstrosity of human nature, I'm still either too naive or too dumbfounded to comprehend the capability we all have for such evil.

[mrsleeve]

Please read my edit to my last post

Don't get me wrong, I fully respect what you've have smartly done your ENTIRE life to be able to get where you want to go. But even that can find its way back to our circumstance discussion, which I still believe is playable.

Yes things can happen to destroy all of my wealth, I know that. But you know what, I can make it all back again, I am not afraid to work. I dont need the govt to take care of it for me.

To get back more on topic of this thread though is this. You have a right to make money, you have a right to enjoy that money. The issue is where is the line drawn when your rights inhibit the rights of others or when your success comes at the sacrifice of the many and I mean many.

No one forces someone to work for them it. When someone takes a shitty job there are circumstances involved. Its a mutual contract and you can walk away from it at anytime (not so easy for the employer though). If you are unwilling to do what is necessary to get a job that pays to your liking then thats your own problem. I mean move, travel, work long long hours, be away from home, ect..... There is opportunity out there, you just have to be willing to do what has to be done, and if your not willing then thats your problem NOT MINE or anyone of us that ARE WILLING TO.

I don't have the problem with business trying to keep afloat but more the realistic sense about a lot of these 'American' or 'patriotic' businesses that make their money and totally undermine the social prosperity of the majority of this country (that includes a lot of our governments current day functions/support and the likes). I know that we might ever agree on shit like this and I like that, but I have some very clear lines on what achieving prosperity looks like the moral way vs immoral way and Wall Street is often seen as the epitome of immorality.

Convulsion of Govt and greed. No more no less, if the market was left alone (other than the most basic of regulation) Look at Hong Kong. A place where the markets have been left free, business is encouraged, and entrepreneurship is made easy. Living standard is the rival of our own.

edit:

Example: The housing bubble. Honestly, a housing bubble should theoretically never exist. There will always be a shorter supply of land and resources to make said houses. But thanks to the combined efforts of Government and corporate greed, we have such things...(trust me, at least in Cali... the housing market wont slow down because there is a shortage of buyers) It doesn't matter how much of your life you saved for your retirement, that can all be gone because of arbitrary circumstances. And I'm not even talking about irresponsible people who live beyond their means. And even though you can make the argument of people need to be smarter about these things... think about it also in this sense. In other situations you can honestly tell a person couldn't have known any better. Even though in buying a house thats not nearly as fool proof, think about how we are raised as a society (not just you) and how we're constantly bombarded and fed some crazy socially engineered bull shit for what we need. We all have and NEED credit cards and most of us go on with our lives thinking that its good to have one to build credit and yadda etc. The truth of the matter though is that through human instinct/behavior and brilliant marketing, the majority of us think that we NEED to accept this sort of financial slavery. Even though Im Polish, and trust me we Pole's understand the monstrosity of human nature, I'm still either too naive or too dumbfounded to comprehend the capability we all have for such evil.

The housing bubble is 100% the result of govt interference in the system. With Acts and Legislation (Dodd/Frank) and all kinds of other shit. These forced banks to loan to those that were risky by law, and in every increasing percentages of their balance sheets. The govt said that they would back those bad loans and all accounts and loans. With that all the risk was taken out of it for the banks and there for there would be no penalty for them making the bad loans. TOO BIG TO FAIL. This was a result of the convulsion of govt and greed from bankers allowed to write their own legislation. On this we agree, its not the product of wallstreet, its a product of GOVERNMENT.

In closing like I have said before the protesters have a right to be mad, we all do but they seem to be missing the point and are pissed at the symptoms rather than the cause.

[Vdavie]

These folks kill me. I own a small business. I cashed out my 401k, emptied my savings, sold my car to start my business. I took the risk and now they tell me i have to pay more taxes because i make to much? I own a staffing company, and 25-30% of the folks we talk to about a job say no..why? "my unemployment has not run out yet" " i only want to drive 15 miles from my house" 'oh, it only pays 37.00 and hour? I want 45.00" i could go on all day. 4.3% thats the unemployment for folks with a degree. This is only getting attention because Obama needs to counter the Tea Party but the prob is only 36% voted in the last election. Yep, a real smart bunch.

Vince

[Deltron Dirty30]

[e30e]

How about take responsibility for yourself AND do something about being fucked.

I am, I don't over spend and enjoy my off time. Let me know when this protesting changes anything for the good and I'll say that I was wrong.

[Vdavie]

Yes it was the gov. who had a big hand in the housing bust...remember Clinton signing the law the took down the firewall that forbid banks to bundle those loans with other securities and sell them. The Dems wanted to give a house to every idiot in our country. The fact is not eveybody should own a house. Why? because they cant afford it if they dont want to work to pay for it. You make 20k a year and you sign a loan for 250k for a house and its all the greedy banks fault? Your the idiot that signed the papers without reading or understanding it..who's fault is that. You buy a car without a ppi and it blows up a week later..well who's fault is that? I am tired of paying more taxes for people who just think i owe them something. You want a job, cut your hair, take a freakin shower, put down the joint and get off your ass.

Vince

[bme30]

...be happy of what you've got...

Welcome to the U.S. of A

[mrsleeve]

We are the 53%

http://the53.tumblr.com/

Seems the smelly hippies are getting a little uppity

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/10/14/violence-breaks-out-during-occupy-wall-street-march-on-wall-street/

[Dozyproductions]

Convulsion of Govt and greed. No more no less, if the market was left alone (other than the most basic of regulation) Look at Hong Kong. A place where the markets have been left free, business is encouraged, and entrepreneurship is made easy. Living standard is the rival of our own.

Their system and outcome, I am a fan of. That's why I'm a supporter of Ron Paul (shameless plug).

In closing like I have said before the protesters have a right to be mad, we all do but they seem to be missing the point and are pissed at the symptoms rather than the cause.

agreed.


I read your edit to your post. On a more philosophical note, what do you think came first? Bad business or bad government/regulation? Or are they essential for each other? And when do you start asking yourself do you live to work or work to live?

[mrsleeve]

We can only hope to have a chance to actually vote for Paul, as he will always be a fringe candidate I fear.

Lol thats like asking which came 1st the chicken or the egg.. Both are inherently self serving and can lead to bad ju ju no doubt. But the difference lies with in their fundamental function in society.

I guess to put it simply, Govt gets is power though force and at the tip of a spear or punishment of law, businesses have to persuade us to deal with them, by providing service or product.

[Victell]

... businesses have to persuade us to deal with them, by providing service or product.

Stubbornly naiive or willfully ignorant? How many examples do you need of corrupt businesses circumventing the correct and mutally-beneficial methods of capitalism and instead doing things like getting laws changed in their favor, price fixing, buying politicians and judges, etc?

The vast majority of business dont do these things. They are fine with normal competition and making a top product or service. Which is the way its supposed to be. Its the few asshole ones that fuck things up. And they fuck things up big. And when these asshole companies are huge, multinational corps that have a massive impact on the global economy... well here we are. Thats what the OWC folks are on about.

But it takes two to tango. These asshole companies wouldnt be able to get away with this shit if it wasnt for the compliance and assistance from corrupt politicians. They are supposed to be the watchdogs with laws and regulations to make sure the system stays fair. When they are bought, all this goes out the window.

Ultimately the responsibility and burden falls on us. Which it absofuckinglutely should. If we vote for shitty politicians and buy products from shitty companies, then we are to blame.