Global Warming is over.

[decay]

Wanted to magnify this. Y'all can take my P&R with a grain of salt. But this is what brings us together.

THe important part, is P&R stays in P&R. Lol. You need thick skin here.

Where's mrsleeve haha.

I miss you guys. Social media killed forums.

oh boy. if that dude shows back up i can't promise i won't go weapons-hot again, but i am making a concerted effort to keep my posts reasoned and civil

tangentially, i quit facebook about a week ago because it's become even more of a toxic environment than P&R ever was

[decay]

You hit shift and made a {

a few times, i've been neck-deep in python and bash all day and wanted to address Wagen's points individually. fixed :D

[ForcedFirebird]

Human exploitation is the problem. "If I am prosperous, who cares what/who suffer"

[ForcedFirebird]

You hit shift and made a {

[ForcedFirebird]

decay you might have missed a bracket in that post lol.

[ForcedFirebird]

While I keep driving 25+ year old BMWs

Wanted to magnify this. Y'all can take my P&R with a grain of salt. But this is what brings us together.

THe important part, is P&R stays in P&R. Lol. You need thick skin here.

Where's mrsleeve haha.

I miss you guys. Social media killed forums.

[decay]

It may not be "terraforming" but our activities have clearly measurable consequences on ecosystems

reading your story warmed my black heart a little bit

you're right that we are not the only factor; volcanic eruptions have caused years-long winters https://www.sciencefriday.com/articl...canic-winters/

that's climate change, and not our fault at all

but does that mean we should do nothing about not contributing to the problem?

It may not be "terraforming" but our activities have clearly measurable consequences on ecosystems.

this has been documented for a while now. during the adoption of coal while the industrial revolution was happening in europe, insects with darker colors became more prevalent because everything was covered in ash, so they were less visible to species that preyed upon them https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ion-180959282/ so we literally changed the evolution of a species

So I'm just going to sit back and let the Ph.Ds do their thing while I keep driving 25+ year old BMWs

i hope you have fun with that; IIRC you were one of the first few people to get an E30 touring into the states; and i'm gonna lighten my Z3, do schrick cams and lightweight lifters, a supersprint exhaust, and a bit of weight reduction to make a "Z3 CSL" tribute the factory never made, because like i said, enthusiasts like us are not the root cause; military and commercial activity is

[ForcedFirebird]

There's a link to data and graphics that correlate rising greenhouse gases with rising temperatures, rising sea levels, decreases in arctic ice, etc. Reading the site might have helped with not coming off like a tool :P

I have read it as soon as posted. Not trying to be a tool, but name calling is generally a defense mechanism.

Yes, I have been alive long enough to see this with my own eyes, in real time.

My question, is, how do you know humans are the main driver of the system?

[ForcedFirebird]

You mean to say that we humans like to exaggerate our impact on the global environment out of self-importance or something? I remember being a global warming skeptic and believing our footprint on the earth is miniscule next to things like volcanic eruptions or ocean currents or solar flares or whatever. Sure, the earth has persisted within a range of ecological extremes for millions of years, but it seems more narcissistic to believe our industrialization efforts were nothing if not scrupulous and therefore superfluous to the natural order of things.

It may not be "terraforming" but our activities have clearly measurable consequences on ecosystems. I remember reading articles only a few months into the pandemic lockdowns about regional improvements to air and water quality due to industry shutdowns, among other things. I think the approach we should have about all this is that, unless you believe in the Silurian hypothesis, this is the first time the planet is experiencing the man-made release of hydrocarbons. Pointing to some graph of earth's historical climate changes over the past million years is evidence for what, exactly? We are in completely new territory and the data that matters is the data we're collecting now, and we've pretty only just begun. So I'm just going to sit back and let the Ph.Ds do their thing while I keep driving 25+ year old BMWs

Yes we do. Why? Because humans "think" they are so important.

I like to look at data, and have lived in coastal communities since the late 70's. I can personally tell you all about the horseshoe crab population, and that certainly wasn't climate. When I was a kid, there would be a school of hundreds of horseshoe crabs walking up the beach in Cape Cod. I can tell you about the gill nets and declining fish population in Florida when I moved here in 1988. I can tell you about the 34-36" Snook we would catch, and now we aren't even allowed to keep a 32"+ trophy.

Doesn't humanity have a problem, yes. We are a wasteful bunch.

Do some research. Where does your recycling ACTUALLY go. How much labor and energy does it cost to build EV, windmills, how do we dispose of that stuff?

If it were up to me, and there was no intervention, I could cleverly collect rain water, hunt/raise animals, farm and never bother another soul.

Yes, I am familiar with smog. We went through "OMG acid rain will melt your skin". Boston was always foggy, specially when we burned leaded in autos. Which, by the way, is still heavily used in a aviation industry.

[ForcedFirebird]

thought you were going to bed. you've got a shop to run, i'm just an insomniac writing code and watching anime :P

jokes aside. you remember the kerfluffle about CFCs eroding the ozone layer in our atmosphere and giving a bunch of folks skin cancer because we were eroding the ozone layer, when you and i were growing up in the 80s

humanity is now 8+ billion people, and at that scale, a difference was made by changing what's allowed to be put in consumer products

link for reference: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56014092

so. presenting that as a non-anectodal example of how altering human behavior changed our environment

I am also an insomniac. I was up at 5:15, and at work at 7:15. I just got home at 21:17. If I go to bed at 20:00, I will be pacing the halls at 2.

We as humans are a mere blip regarding Earth's history.

Yes we are at 8bn, but with birth rate decline, I am curious about our future. We need 2+ per family to sustain population, the US hit 1.2 this year.

Yeah, I like to rattle the pot. But to think humans who have been around, maybe 1m yr in our current hominid form, has any sway on a 4.5bn year process, yes that's narcissistic.

[AlexJ]

The debate has been about human intervention and warming - not necessarily IF the earth is warming. Skimming a few pages might have helped with context. :P

EDIT: Pretty sure that link has been posted here.

There's a link to data and graphics that correlate rising greenhouse gases with rising temperatures, rising sea levels, decreases in arctic ice, etc. Reading the site might have helped with not coming off like a tool :P

[E30 Wagen]

Root cause of climate change. Hmm. If I was to approach it the way I do most things, I would say that if humanity thinks they really have a play on terraforming, I got news for you. Humans are narcissistic.

You mean to say that we humans like to exaggerate our impact on the global environment out of self-importance or something? I remember being a global warming skeptic and believing our footprint on the earth is miniscule next to things like volcanic eruptions or ocean currents or solar flares or whatever. Sure, the earth has persisted within a range of ecological extremes for millions of years, but it seems more narcissistic to believe our industrialization efforts were nothing if not scrupulous and therefore superfluous to the natural order of things.

It may not be "terraforming" but our activities have clearly measurable consequences on ecosystems. I remember reading articles only a few months into the pandemic lockdowns about regional improvements to air and water quality due to industry shutdowns, among other things. I think the approach we should have about all this is that, unless you believe in the Silurian hypothesis, this is the first time the planet is experiencing the man-made release of hydrocarbons. Pointing to some graph of earth's historical climate changes over the past million years is evidence for what, exactly? We are in completely new territory and the data that matters is the data we're collecting now, and we've pretty only just begun. So I'm just going to sit back and let the Ph.Ds do their thing while I keep driving 25+ year old BMWs

[decay]

Root cause of climate change. Hmm. If I was to approach it the way I do most things, I would say that if humanity thinks they really have a play on terraforming, I got news for you. Humans are narcissistic.

thought you were going to bed. you've got a shop to run, i'm just an insomniac writing code and watching anime :P

jokes aside. you remember the kerfluffle about CFCs eroding the ozone layer in our atmosphere and giving a bunch of folks skin cancer because we were eroding the ozone layer, when you and i were growing up in the 80s

humanity is now 8+ billion people, and at that scale, a difference was made by changing what's allowed to be put in consumer products

link for reference: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-56014092

so. presenting that as a non-anectodal example of how altering human behavior changed our environment

[ForcedFirebird]

Initial D. Ugh. Had to read back your comment. I was Akira and Ghost, maybe a little Tank Police. You had to stay up really late in the 80's to see Star Blazers.

[ForcedFirebird]

Root cause of climate change. Hmm. If I was to approach it the way I do most things, I would say that if humanity thinks they really have a play on terraforming, I got news for you. Humans are narcissistic.