Global Warming is over.

[decay]

libertarians are just diet anarchists. change my mind after you go to bed and run the shop tomorrow, friend ;)

and believe that there's a reason i left california. i've said it a thousand times; if i pass the sniff it's nunya what's under the hood. in WA i get to live that; and i see dudes running cars they've put a lot of work into every day now. if it passes the sniff test, keep building; that's how it should be.

you'd love the mazda FC one of my neighbors up here owns. faceful of intercooler so turbo'd, probably bridgeported but i never heard it run, but definitely a dirty little girl that looks like it fell out of an episode of Intial D

how it should be. back to my argument about root cause of climate change

[ForcedFirebird]

Not sure why I checked here at 11pm lol. I open the shop door at 7:30 and usually don't check out until 19:00ish.

Call yourself whatever you want. As long as it doesn't affect me, or my family, I'll call you a Fart if you request so.

If I was to "classify" myself, I am just right of center. Same as always. Voted about equal between red and blue, left and right, but generally they are both cheeks on the same arse.

I feel you should be compensated for your value. If we were a prehistoric tribe and you didn't participate in the hunt or farming, you don't eat. Life should really be that simple.

I never mentioned lithium. Most modern EV batteries are shying away from Li and cobalt. Getting better, but no matter how you slice it, demographics are getting exploited, just not for diamonds and gold anymore.

LNG and LPG are superior to liquid gasoline, and yes, filling them and infrastructure is a huge drawback.

Yes, we could turbo an ETA, but realistically my e90 335d smokes a majority of the cars in the road, gets 29mpg in the city (42mpg at 90mph cruise), but shame on me for driving a diesel. If the govt didn't mandate the emissions, I'd be getting 35 and 50+ (you know, because my emissions is still intact, hint). If you calculate the emissions from a gasser to diesel, sure the D is dirtier, but at 3x the milage, it gets to be moot.

Honestly, libertarian is the way, but won't happen in my lifetime. Only local government, limited national oversight. Why does a joke in California have a say what happens in Florida? Overreach much?

There's a reason why the K.I.S.S. rule exists.

[decay]

^^^yup

"Cooperate States of America"

We live in a weird age where Elon Musk and Russel Brand are "far right extremists". RMMFAO"

Back to global warming and all that.

decay You started mentioning research and current energy situation.

Volvo did an independent study on the xc90 ICE vs recharge, should check it out. The EV footprint is vastly larger to produce the vehicle itself to the point, it would take 4 years of driving both to gain neutral. Llook at what goes into producing EV batteries. "Rare Earth Elements" aren't rare, quite abundant actually. It's the parts per million that's the issue. You have an avg of 50-75ppm at best. So you are moving a million pounds of material to get 50 pounds of rare earths. How much diesel does that take? lol

Why hasn't hydrogen gone farther? Most ICE's can be converted to run on H, as well as LNG.

i'm gonna drop my usual rants about the extreme ends of the political spectrum (and i've made no secret that i'm on one of them; call me a liberal and we're about to have a talk, i am a leftist).

lithium may not actually be that "rare", but as you said and volvo's data demonstrates, the process of getting it out of the ground and powering a vehicle with it is incredibly energy-intensive and while i haven't dug too far into the intersection of automotive technology and environmental science, i think your hypothesis about it being a net-negative might not be off

electric cars as they're currently built are not a solution, they are simply replacing one non-renewable resource with another

by the data, commercially-produced hydrogen is largely generated by harvesting natural gas, so we're headed right back down the same path there unless we figure out a truly renewable solution that can support everyone

that said; if anyone can pick up a beater eta and turn it into a hydrogen car (and maybe turbo it *wink*nudge*) it's probably you, man, but getting the infrastructure to support it is a whole other question. one of my exes had one of those CNG honda civics, but getting fuel into that thing was a f*cking PITA, and would have been worse if there wasn't a station a mile where we lived next to LAX

[roguetoaster]

I also think debating if it's happening or not is immaterial. People can believe whatever they want and it simply does not matter.

We need to plan for a worst case scenario and execute on it. Then if we are wrong we've spent a lot of money, innovated, and made ourselves more efficient, because that's what we do as Americans anyway. OTOH, if we do nothing and the worst is in fact coming, perhaps the best we can hope for might be immediate death in a nuclear war. Yay!

[ForcedFirebird]

^^^yup

"Cooperate States of America"

We live in a weird age where Elon Musk and Russel Brand are "far right extremists". RMMFAO"

Back to global warming and all that.

decay You started mentioning research and current energy situation.

Volvo did an independent study on the xc90 ICE vs recharge, should check it out. The EV footprint is vastly larger to produce the vehicle itself to the point, it would take 4 years of driving both to gain neutral. Llook at what goes into producing EV batteries. "Rare Earth Elements" aren't rare, quite abundant actually. It's the parts per million that's the issue. You have an avg of 50-75ppm at best. So you are moving a million pounds of material to get 50 pounds of rare earths. How much diesel does that take? lol

Why hasn't hydrogen gone farther? Most ICE's can be converted to run on H, as well as LNG.

[roguetoaster]

Honestly folks, I think we're screwed. The government probably can't fix this mess since our representatives are more or less beholden to entities who simply want more profit now, and can't be bothered about 50 years in the future.

That leads me to believe that the only possible way forward is individual action, basically voting with our wallets. Unfortunately, that requires people to care deeply about the quality of life of those not yet born, globally not just locally, to seriously research almost every purchase, and significantly reshape their lives in a massively more austere way, devoid of many of the conveniences we have now become accustomed to. In the end, I just don't think people will be bothered to change until it is plainly clear to even casual observers that we will not be able to live on this planet, and by then it will be far too late.

[ForcedFirebird]

No, he actually wasn't cherry-picking. I challenge you to interview some twenty-somethings and see for yourself. It's quite disheartening.

MY 19yr old had trouble with some of these questions, but did FARRRR better than the kids in the video. He struggled in school, so opted for his welding certs instead - which he is acing.

Yes, I may be 46 on a calendar, but as you know from military, raising a family makes you grow up just as quick. I started having children in 1998 to put things in perspective, my soul is a lot older than my body, so to speak. All my children's peers have parents that are 65yr +. When the first was born, we were the youngest parent at the school functions, by the time we had the fourth one at 30, that flipped. Now I am older than most parents. Ugh.

Times were much different when we grew up, as you know. I had a rotary dial phone at home, Atari 2600 was new (we actually had Pong), saw the first MTv video, saw the Challenger explode, saw Reagan inauguration, and slightly remember Carter (but didn't know much beyond he was president). Crap I remember my pop buying his brand new 1979 f250 extended cab 4x4. It was exceptionally cold that winter, and we had deep snow that year, and my little brother was born. My grandmother is still kicking after birthing 8 children, I am the oldest grandchild (she was 39 at my birth) and now not only has a 24yr old great-granddaughter, she actually might see 5 living generations. Many of my friends are still having kids in their 40's. I will be 48 when my last one graduates high school - still have a whole life ahead of me. :)

...and to say "we won't be alive", not sure about that. I plan on being a centurion. I want to see what happens after all this crap!

[decay]

While I agree with you, "education" and "educated" are not one in the same. I don't have a "formal" education, but that didn't stop me from being self-educated.

no argument there man, i'm a software engineer that doesn't have a degree in that field, but i have github repos out the ass getting starred and forked

i had to close that video about 2 minutes in because it made me depressed. i'm sure he's probably cherry-picking idiots for content, but still

where i feel like you're touching on my point here is that people are uninformed but still involving themselves in the conversation, which is how this thread was created so long ago by one of our resident d*mbf*cks

the tragedy, i fear, from what i've learned- there's been a timeline and expiration date mapped out by people much smarter than i am, and since you and i are both in our 40s we're probably not going to live to see the earth's heat death, the depletion of crop viability, conflict over water and food availability, displacement of refugees out of places impacted by these factors- all of which have already started- but those teenage kids of yours probably will

am i suggesting we all stop building ICE project cars? absolutely not, because they may be a contributor but they aren't the primary root cause.

the sources contributing to climate change are the US military (documented as being the biggest polluter "in the wuhld -Clarkson"), energy generation via non-renewable resources that aren't properly regulated or controlled (hi Asia, hope the monsoon season cleans your air soon, but that just means it goes in your local water supply and gives people cancer), and the large-scale vehicles used for public transportation and agriculture that are also largely unregulated or exempt

sometimes i wish i hadn't learned about this sh*t

[ForcedFirebird]

damn that vid is 11 minutes long.

Right? Dude has like 15 of them, and shows just what the future generation looks like....

Worst ones are the "I have a masters (and $200k debt)" but can't tell you what year the US was founded.

My oldest graduated FSU in 3.5yr, dual majors Magna Cum Laude (one B lol), and $0 debt.

Meanwhile, I had a customer who was using their student debt to pay for their e28 project.....

/rant lol.

I kinda miss P&R. This was the busiest section for a while.

[MrBurgundy]

damn that vid is 11 minutes long.

[ForcedFirebird]

studied, past tense, and what you're positing here is that education is of no value

While I agree with you, "education" and "educated" are not one in the same. I don't have a "formal" education, but that didn't stop me from being self-educated.

I never realized how ignorant today's youth is. I asked my 16-19yr old kids the following kind of questions, nailed almost every one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2oMv93EUpY

Sad thing is, this guy has TONS of these videos. So sad.

[decay]

In a debate, taking a position of authority because some how your opinion is stronger due to "because I go this school or I study this field". Is an extremely poor argument. You need to debate the subject not stand on your ivory tower and look down on me or others.
Also this is a fucking joke.

studied, past tense, and what you're positing here is that education is of no value

you're not debating, you just reposted something you found from google image search. a debate involves a little more nuance than that, so try harder if you want to have one. there's publicly available data on the frequency of extreme weather events from NOAA

i invite you to look at the trend over the past 30 years presented by that organization, run by actual scientists with doctorates in the field (which is not me, i just used the rest of my GI Bill to get a 2nd bachelor's degree)

also, that joke wasn't funny when matt and trey made it 15 years ago, and you're not funny for reposting it

[ForcedFirebird]

Not going to read 213 pages.

NASA has a great resource f/ this information. It's updated all-the-time.

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs...l-temperature/

Don't miss the links below the animation f/ CO2, sea level, ocean warming, etc.

The debate has been about human intervention and warming - not necessarily IF the earth is warming. Skimming a few pages might have helped with context. :P

EDIT: Pretty sure that link has been posted here.

[roguetoaster]

I know you guys are relatively new here, but P&R was the joke on this forum for a long time. Only engage if you just want to waste time. Also, this thread is 80 pages, change your user settings.

[AlexJ]

Not going to read 213 pages.

NASA has a great resource f/ this information. It's updated all-the-time.

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/

Don't miss the links below the animation f/ CO2, sea level, ocean warming, etc.