Sick Rantorum

[z31maniac]

Who's denying either of those things? I thought it was kind of obvious that world around us, and the amazingness of the way it thrives and was understood.

When you get sick, do you:

a. Go to the doctor
b. Pray

Since God has a plan for everything, ya know?

[Kershaw]

c. go to the doctor because that is GOD'S PLAN!!!

[rwh11385]

The same reason most people can't do the same on car forums, or any other aspect of life.

Right.... solid reasoning... [not]

The fundamental core of moral beliefs are shared in majority of religious or non-religious groups. Such that, civil law is easily agreed upon in mature and understanding societies, like in Western Europe. They respect differences better than the US and also leave others be with their personal decisions and don't interfere, like the US originally set out to do. For a lot of the things people take upon themselves to butt into the lives of others here, you'd be ignored or considered very rude in the UK or elsewhere.

At some point, the US fell behind the other Western nations as far as being fair to all and understanding freedom. Up until 1967, the US shared with South Africa's Apartheid and Nazi laws that prohibited interracial relationships, which was based on religious thought that separate races ought to be separate. Similarly, most modern Western cultures have legalized gay marriage, whereas the US - the 'land of the free' and has a established principle of 'separation church and state' bans in most of the country gay marriages. Certainly hypocritical of US.

[z31maniac]

c. go to the doctor because that is GOD'S PLAN!!!

Haha!

I always found it interesting with the Terry Schiavo case all the religous folks saying taking her off life support was murder/evil/etc.

Yet, she would have never been alive if they hadn't, so she would have died much sooner, according to God's plan.

[FunfGan]

When you get sick, do you:

a. Go to the doctor
b. Pray

Since God has a plan for everything, ya know?

Doctor, and pray. Who said we had to wait around waiting for God to do something?

[FunfGan]

Also, its funny how were the close minded ones, yet these threads always get out of hand because people start attacking theists? No?

[Cliche Guevara]

You're doing the same exact thing my friend. Atheism is, in all ways, a religion. It is a set of beliefs, and how you live your life. You're saying that your beliefs trump my, or any other person on here's beliefs.

You're wrong on every level here, and all you need is a little understanding of the English language to know why. Let's break down the word together (it's just like elementary school!) "a" is a very simple prefix, it just means "not." It essentially flips the meaning of the next part of the word to its opposite. theism: the belief that a god exists. So, as you can see, the only thing atheism is is a lack of belief in a god, nothing else is required to be an atheist. It is not a set of beliefs, does not dictate how you live your life, and necessitates zero delusions of grandeur as you suggest. There's no way around it, you are, in your assessment of atheism, totally and unequivocally incorrect.

I believe in a logical theory of how the world was created, and continues to run.

Your belief in this area is neither logical nor a theory. I doubt you even know what a scientific theory is.

How else would such a great and mighty world have been created? Using your theory, if we took apart a watch, placed all the parts in a bag and shook it, given enough time the watch would put itself together?

Can these primitive watch parts reproduce? Do they have DNA that is apt to mutate?

And yes, we do not believe in evolution as it is taught, just as you do not believe in creationism, though you really don't have much proof.

Don't have much proof? Ha! I will gladly refute every single argument you have against evolution, as well as every bit of "evidence" you have supporting creationism.

Does it have 2000+ years of following, the best selling printed book of all time, and other, secular documents which back the book up?

Or just look around you.

Argument of old; logical fallacy.

[rwh11385]

Doctor, and pray. Who said we had to wait around waiting for God to do something?

Christian Scientists. What if they wanted to control medical policy of the government and impose their beliefs on everyone?

[mar1t1me]

You act like you know all there is to know.

I'm sorry you must have missed this statement by me:

"But yet I remain open to change my ideas as new evidence is presented and explored."

That right there is more than religion is often ever willing to do.

I understand that I know little, but religion claims to know everything!

And, though your creationism comment was not intended for me, do you not understand the difference between theory and hypothesis? Proof? How many "Burning Bushes" does science need to show you? That species change and adapt to their surroundings is well vetted. That over 99.9% of all the species that have lived on Earth are extinct is well vetted. Religion's hollow protestations will not prevent a phenomenon easy to observe in the natural world from happening. Nor can it alter that other well known theory: The Theory of Gravity.

[FunfGan]

I'm sorry you must have missed this statement by me:

"But yet I remain open to change my ideas as new evidence is presented and explored."

That right there is more than religion is often ever willing to do.

I understand that I know little, but religion claims to know everything!

And, though your creationism comment was not intended for me, do you not understand the difference between theory and hypothesis? Proof? How many "Burning Bushes" does science need to show you? That species change and adapt to their surroundings is well vetted. That over 99.9% of all the species that have lived on Earth are extinct is well vetted. Religion's hollow protestations will not prevent a phenomenon easy to observe in the natural world from happening. Nor can it alter that other well known theory: The Theory of Gravity.

Who said we claim to know everything? If I said something that sounded like that, I didn't mean to. I don't really disagree with anything you just said.

[Frog]

The founders knew well enough the dangers of intermixing religion and government, as demonstrated in England as well as Spain. I think the fact that many people immigrated to America to escape religion persecution or to enjoy freedom of religion (or freedom to not have one) ought to underline how silly it is that a politician is now pushing to reduce the separation of church and state.

Those who fail to learn from history are bound to suffer from its same problems.

Exactly, they didn't come here to start a protestant nation. They came here to create a secular nation for the freedom of all religions..

If they wanted it to be protestant, they would have only allowed protestants here, which was not the case..

Right on, sir.

[Frog]

Also, its funny how were the close minded ones, yet these threads always get out of hand because people start attacking theists? No?

Close minded? Who are you calling close minded?

[FunfGan]

Close minded? Who are you calling close minded?

Christians/ religious people were called close minded, and Christians are always accused of attacking people. But if you look at any of the threads in this sub forum, you'll find the exact opposite. Merely pointing that out.

[cale]

He doesn't ban people to hell. he puts a savior out there.

As for the second part, here is what I believe based on the Bible, though there is debate among Christians;

Those who have never heard of them, still have the earth and its wonders to reveal His wonders. Those who put faith in a god have put faith in God. How are they to know any religion? They have never been taught any of that. But they have acknowledged a God, therefor will be saved.

What kind of self-esteem lacking teenage girl of a god do you follow? Honestly he creates the entire goddamn universe and gets his panties in a bunch and dooms his creations to an eternity of suffering when they don't acknowledge him even though he doesn't even show himself? The proposition of an Abrahamic god is laughable at best.

Religion is a set of beliefs. I don't know what you're talking about. So nobody who founded our country had a "religion"?

It's a hell of a lot more than just beliefs, picking and choosing what part of the definition of religion you wish to include in this thread?

a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Using your theory, if we took apart a watch, placed all the parts in a bag and shook it, given enough time the watch would put itself together? Really?

You clearly have no comprehension of science, philosophy or the rationality to make use of them. The pieces to create the universe did not simply assemble themselves, the pieces themselves evolved over time. The majority of the elements you see now were not even in existence at the time of the big bang, yet you think it was simple a matter of all the pieces falling together? Even if that is how it happened you would still argue it's impossibility. If you have a trillion sided die, the chances of 193,398,298,391 coming up is infinitesimally small. Yet no matter how stacked the odds are, a number HAS to be rolled. Are you going to cry that's impossible when a number is rolled? That's exactly what you do when you chalk off the universe as an impossibility without a deity. I'm sorry you cannot understand that.

[mar1t1me]

Who said we claim to know everything?

You need not claim it, for religion already has done so on behalf of its adherents. I could sit here all night linking to sites and ideologies that claim their divine text is "The Word". The books they claim to be divinely inspired, and in many cases the actual direct dictation of God have been touted as the one-stop go-to source for everything humans need to know. Science has been called the enemy for many, many years. How dare it question The Word Of God! How many people who simply dared to question have suffered horribly at the hands of the pious through the centuries?

To me, what is happening in the world right now are the dying gasps, the extinction burst of mankind's ever-growing, nagging feeling that religion doesn't have any real answers anymore. Its most fervent adherents can be found in the most illiterate, and ignorant cultures on the planet. The Nigerians and their 21st century witch burnings to the Taliban Fundamentalists who preach a distrust for science, especially Western science. And now we are seeing the same distrust of science preached in this country by so-called leaders, with Rick Santorum leading the way.