Obama supports new bid to ban assault weapons.

[Q5Quint]

I always feel awkward in a room of people talking about gun control and assault weapon bans. You cant just ban something because it is 'scary' especially when all facts lead to a completely different conclusion (ie handguns and gangs/cities).

I still haven't heard any talk of the real issues and some of the facts being brought up are worse than the sandy hook thing.

Fixing the drug issues might help get people off the street and stop the problems before they turn into problems~

perhaps a buyback program for illegal weapons? ie if you buy a unregistered/stolen gun on the street you can turn it in with no questions asked for some kind of payment~ that would get 'the boys' turning in each others guns for $200 or whatever the going rate for shitpistols is. You arn't actually going to shoot somebody with a gun legally registered and tagged in your name, are you?

Maybe trigger locks when weaps are in storage, some kind of penalty if somebody uses your unlocked guns to kill with, a ccw like class for everybody that gets a permit. Find some way to address the issues of criminals/gangsters and mentally unstable people vs stable people protecting themselves from thugs and lunatics.

I think this is an excellent opportunity for the fed~ what would republicans do if obama came out with a $300 'safety training' program that gives every citizen a free rifle if they complete it? That would stir some pots for sure.

[mrsleeve]

I always feel awkward in a room of people talking about gun control and assault weapon bans. You cant just ban something because it is 'scary' especially when all facts lead to a completely different conclusion (ie handguns and gangs/cities).

I still haven't heard any talk of the real issues and some of the facts being brought up are worse than the sandy hook thing.

Fixing the drug issues might help get people off the street and stop the problems before they turn into problems~

Agreed

Quintperhaps a buyback program for illegal weapons? ie if you buy a unregistered/stolen gun on the street you can turn it in with no questions asked for some kind of payment~ that would get 'the boys' turning in each others guns for $200 or whatever the going rate for shitpistols is. You arn't actually going to shoot somebody with a gun legally registered and tagged in your name, are you?

they do this all the time in the bigger anti gun states, as well a urban areas all the time. Nothing new, a article a couple of weeks ago showed a pile of "assault weapons" stacked on a table, that people traded in to get 200 dollar gift card for food, in LA there were maybe 15 or 20 of them, but paper made a big deal about how the annual buy back was not enough and ran this one and all the Assault weapons off the street with hardly a mention of the all the hand guns. You could just make the edges of an even larger pile of elcheapo hand guns that were "worth way less than the 100 dollar gift card to the grocery store".

Maybe trigger locks when weaps are in storage, some kind of penalty if somebody uses your unlocked guns to kill with, a ccw like class for everybody that gets a permit. Find some way to address the issues of criminals/gangsters and mentally unstable people vs stable people protecting themselves from thugs and lunatics.

Trigger locks have to come with all NEW firearms purchases by federal law since the late 90's IIRC.

No there is should be no mandate on how I have to store my property in my house. Whos going to enforce that??? I have a safe many of my weapons live in there, some dont, its just how it is. It would be like telling you that you have to park your car in a locked garage with all access to it secured when ever your not useing it. Dont have a garage or the funds or space to build one tough tittes get rid of your car then.

You dont need a permit to own a rifle or shot gun (unless you live in Chicago and DC IIRC) Pistols, in several states you need to get a permission slip to acquire a pistol or you need to register them once you do. Owning a gun is not like getting your drivers license, Owning a firearm is a RIGHT, not a privilege like a drivers license You cant hinge rights on a conditional and vague requirement. It would be like requiring you to pass a class and test to before you can use your 1st amendment rights. Yes some people are more irresponsible than other with their firearms but in general and over all 99.99999% of owners are adequately responsible with out having to have some kind of madated class.

Besides most of us get/take hunters safety which is mostly about firearm safety anyway at about 11-13 anyway. When I took mine it was AT THE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL 2 nights after school was over. Yes we had lots of guns in the room too, of course this was before the mandated gun free zone thing from the feds, and I grew up in small farming community and my 6th grade teacher that also did the hunters safety was also my neighbor lol.

I think this is an excellent opportunity for the fed~ what would republicans do if obama came out with a $300 'safety training' program that gives every citizen a free rifle if they complete it? That would stir some pots for sure.

interesting plan, not that I would not support such a thing, but whos going to pay for it......

[Q5Quint]

I live in NC so we had a great FFA and a excellent ROTC programs, and I think the rotc kids had even won some state marksmanship rifle challenge or something at one point when I was in highschool. Very rural place for sure and the lines of race were not such a big issue since everyone was a broke redneck no matter what color your skin was. I noticed that got a little different when you got to the city.... but again that is a handgun deal. The fellow that does the ccw class lives down the street from my parents.

No there is should be no mandate on how I have to store my property in my house.

How about a mandate on who can do the wiring in your house? Or plumbing or hvac? Or what seatbelt you have to wear in your car? Or what helmet to wear on your bike?

Yes you can build your own house, but you have to play by the rules so it doesn't kill anyone. I don't see why guns are any different~ and I think the supreme court would agree with me based on their prior rulings for ccw permits etc.

I know some states have lock laws and keeping the ammo in a different spot laws, which defeats the purpose of 'home protection' or what not but it gives the government an out to stand on when a visiting 9 year old finds your loaded gun and shoots himself. That is just plain negligence. When your mentally disturbed 20 year old takes your ar-15.... that is severely gross negligence.

The difference here is in the prosecution~ not application. If we had a lock and separated ammo law it would be your business if you wanted to sleep with a loaded pistol under your pillow. Nobody should ever know that you are doing that, unless something goes wrong and it would be obviously your fault for not locking up your ar-15. It is just a seatbelt~ it might not save everyone but it might save a few more than usual, and a good example would be the Sandy Hook issue.

Would that have prevented crazy mcpsychopants from going to wal-mart and buying a semi-auto rifle? nope, but it would have added a step in the process and maybe given a little more chance to stop it before it happened.

*edit: noting that these laws are more for children and crazy drunks 'accidently' your guns in your house. Preventing you from carrying the same weapon a basic rifleman carries is another issue in itself. Preventing drug wars is another issue.

[mrsleeve]

How about a mandate on who can do the wiring in your house? Or plumbing or hvac? Or what seatbelt you have to wear in your car? Or what helmet to wear on your bike?

bad comparison. No one can stop me from wiring/plumbing/running my own duct work in my house or property. NO ONE, I do have to have a inspector come out once I complete it and look it over though to assure I have done it correctly. (for new construction or anything that a permit is pulled for).

The inspector comes out at time of my choosing, with my permission and does his job 1 time (or as needed) and then its over with. This is not some on going thing where the govt comes out to check on my wiring once a year, or at their leisure or discretion on a continuing "enforcement" basis

So again you cant tell me how to store my lawfully owned property in or on my personal residence or anywhere else I happen to lease or own for that matter..

I know some states have lock laws and keeping the ammo in a different spot laws, which defeats the purpose of 'home protection' or what not but it gives the government an out to stand on when a visiting 9 year old finds your loaded gun and shoots himself. That is just plain negligence. When your mentally disturbed 20 year old takes your ar-15.... that is severely gross negligence.

Yeah your right ruined the personal defense thing right there, and those laws are UNENFORCEABLE, you really dont want to try and barge into my home unannounced and try to enforce it. Sorry try again no 9 year old, is going to find a loaded weapon in my house.................. No kids for 1 thing, and anytime someone that has kids is bringing them over, those loaded weapons are gathered up, and put away until kids leave.

I see what you did there, yes that was a fucked up situation, kid stole those weapons and had ample time to defeat the security measures (if any) his mother had on those weapons when she was in New Hampshire for a weekend

The difference here is in the prosecution~ not application. If we had a lock and separated ammo law it would be your business if you wanted to sleep with a loaded pistol under your pillow. Nobody should ever know that you are doing that, unless something goes wrong and it would be obviously your fault for not locking up your ar-15. It is just a seatbelt~ it might not save everyone but it might save a few more than usual, and a good example would be the Sandy Hook issue.

Seat belt and Helmet laws are all about extorting money out of the general population by broke states and municipalities, under the guise of saving us from our selves, you should know this. Why do you think its not a moving points accumulating violation and just a fine. They know you will just pay it and move on, because it will cost you more in missing work than the fine, I have been pulled over and ticketed for no seat belt while WEARING MY FUCKING SEAT BELT. Cop didnt like the way I looked at him or something and spun around and pulled me over to be nosy to see if I was up too no good at 11am on a Saturday, and when he could not find anything to justify his stop that I would not fight tooth and nail he gave me a seat belt ticket.

Would that have prevented crazy mcpsychopants from going to wal-mart and buying a semi-auto rifle? nope, but it would have added a step in the process and maybe given a little more chance to stop it before it happened.

No your right when ass fuck in CT could not buy a rifle and walk out that day with it he had to go steal weapons..............................

*edit: noting that these laws are more for children and crazy drunks 'accidently' your guns in your house. Preventing you from carrying the same weapon a basic rifleman carries is another issue in itself. Preventing drug wars is another issue.

If you have weapons in your home, you teach your kids about them and not to touch them with out direct supervision 100% of the time even if you store them securely. You want them to fear your punishment (not necessarily an ass whooping) for touching a firearm with out your presence and permission than to be scared of the firearm. I grew up in a home with firearms in it, and I knew where dad kept the loaded 870, ( I wasn't supposed to but I did ;) ) Never messed with it though I knew what would happen if I even made it known I saw dad put it away. I never had "toy" guns as a kid, yeah sounds kinda mean and all but guess what GUNS ARE NOT TOYS not even toy ones. Nerf stuff was kinda grey area as they started to come out when I was about 12-13.

The issues are we have video games/TV/movies teaching kids about firearms and not the parents doing it like they should be.

[Q5Quint]

bad comparison. No one can stop me from wiring/plumbing/running my own duct work in my house or property. NO ONE, I do have to have a inspector come out once I complete it and look it over though to assure I have done it correctly. (for new construction or anything that a permit is pulled for)....

So again you cant tell me how to store my lawfully owned property in or on my personal residence or anywhere else I happen to lease or own for that matter..

Technically if you do it without a permit they issue a cease and desist and fine you, but that does depends on the state (no inspections in Tenessee) but just take my example a step further. I have literally been called to buildings that were about to fall down... and usually it is the neighbors that called when they noticed somebody doing construction un-safe-ly ie building a meth lab without knowing how to frame a building.

So when you say 'you can't be told what to do with your property'....

Well you cant rent it out because you are in the wrong zone, we will fine you for that broken down e30 because it 'lowers property values', you havent passed your plumbing class so you actually can't plumb your own house (in NC at least), you have to wear a seatbelt/helmet when driving (cops and money theiving aside), you cant drive your car without an inspection, you cant burn your trash today and surprise now you have to keep a trigger lock on your gun.

States Requiring Locking Devices on Some or All Firearms
California14
Connecticut15
District of Columbia16 17
Illinois18
Maryland19
Massachusetts20
Michigan21
New Jersey22
New York23
Ohio24
Pennsylvania25
Rhode Island26

That said, the website I found those states on also said this:

The U.S. General Accounting Office has estimated that 31% of accidental deaths caused by firearms might be prevented by the addition of two devices: a child-proof safety lock (8%) and a loading indicator (23%).

http://smartgunlaws.org/locking-devices-policy-summary/

31% of 789 accidental deaths is like 244 people.... and as a statistics nerd that is a crazy small amount considering there are unlocked and loaded weapons and kids in 1.69 million homes in the us. And millions more rifles not causing death at all.

[Quadrajet]

There was a gun buy back that happened in Seattle back around 97 or 98. It was on the news, "turn them in, no questions asked". Later in the same news report they covered a story on break-ins at a few area gunshops. And I figure all they made off with were maybe rifles, as I know most gunshops take and lock ALL their pistols in a big safe if they don't have barred windows and doors.

I'm no genius, but it seems to me that either the stolen guns would replace "dirty" guns with ballistics evidence in waiting, or they would just end up in the buy back, no questions asked.

One of the guns I saw in the buy back line, was a very nice Broomhandle Mauser with Stock. I'm sure the last time it was shot at "someone" was 1918 at the latest.

I'm pretty sure the only time a crime gun ends up helping a case is when the owner ends up resting in a chalk outline. Otherwise if they are still breathing, they take the gun with them.

[sumoashe]

Firstly I am a gun owner, my father is a ffl holding gun broker. At any given point theres probly 100+ guns in inventory. I have been raised around guns my entire life. But sitting here arguing back and forth about the 2nd amendment, the constitution, and various laws is pointless.

The whole reason the gov has to come up with these laws is because "we" as a country are to worried about our own personal freedoms to simply do what is best for the country as a whole.

I have no issues with lawful gun ownership, but we do need full and binding laws to be able prosecute illegal sales. Whether that be under the counter gun show deals(yes they do happen), gun store owners not doing do full background checks with waiting periods or person to person sales.

As for the whole assault weapon, big magazine thing. I say ban all of them. Let's face the fact that there is no logical reason to own these other than to say we do and to make our selves feel cool. If you need a ar/ak/sks ect. with a thirty+ round clip to "hunt" then your a liar using an excuse. And if you use the invasion, uprising, race war, gov takeover ect excuse you simply shouldn't have a gun in the first place cause theres probly something wrong with you in the first place.

And yes they are using Sandy Hook as propaganda, as they have with all the other mass shootings that have taken place. We as a country have been arguing these issues for decades and nothing has changed. My question is how many more people have to die before we get off our asses and do something to change this. If I have to give up something small like not being able to own ar's or not being able to have high cap. mags and it means 1 child lives then I'm happy with that trade.

And there in lies the true issue, we hold our personal freedoms so tightly that the thought of giving an inch to gain a mile is lost on us. If we as a country want changes for the better than get off your ass and make it happen. Remember we have the power to change the gov to how ever we like, thats what democracy is for.

[mrsleeve]

Take your progressive double speak and shove it

Your an ignorant gun owner, you cant talk out of both sides of your mouth on this. The fact you dont understand the 2a and think our federal govt is a democracy says a lot. We live in a REPUBLIC by the way. If you have no problems with lawfull gun owners then why do you have problem with us owning M16/AK look alikes with a standard capacity mag???? They are not the ones that are causing harm with them, also that particular class of weapon is only responsible for something like .6% (YES POINT SIX ) (thanks Manic for that number) OF ALL GUN CRIME Why should be restrict law abiding citizens from owning such things that are so seldomly used in crime and when the last time they were "banned" it DID nothing to stop crime of school shootings ????? Knives and ball bats each kill many more people each year than a incorrectly defined assault weapon

This country was FOUNDED ON PERSONAL FREEDOM, and this is why some of still "CLING TO OUR PERSONAL FREEDOM" (whats left of it anyway) That why the Right to bare arms shall not be infringed is laid our SEPARATELY and so near the top of the list of the bill or rights, because its that important.


I am calling bull shit that you know much of anything about firearms, You dont even know/use the correct terminology. Its NOT A FUCKING CLIP, unless M1's or enfield's all the sudden were being made with a 30 round capacity.

I know lots of people that have and do hunt with an AR variant, prairie dogs and coyotes mostly, but know a couple that have taken 308 variants out on an elk hunt or 2, one is a friend of mine and a cop to boot.

All those evil "assault weapons" and "High Capacity Mags" or clips as you call them laying peaceably in our closets, safes, gun cases and racks not to mention the shot guns, other rifle types and hand guns are 100 times more powerful than picking them up an trying to use them in anger as a check against govt oppression. The mere fact that we are armed keeps govts in check and from running rough shod over rights of the individual.

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

based on your post I think you know where you fall. You will reap what you sow when it comes to freedoms, because once they are relinquished it will take blood to get them back. No one wants that.

[Ether-D]

Firstly I am a gun owner, my father is a ffl holding gun broker. At any given point theres probly 100+ guns in inventory. I have been raised around guns my entire life. But sitting here arguing back and forth about the 2nd amendment, the constitution, and various laws is pointless.

The whole reason the gov has to come up with these laws is because "we" as a country are to worried about our own personal freedoms to simply do what is best for the country as a whole.

I have no issues with lawful gun ownership, but we do need full and binding laws to be able prosecute illegal sales. Whether that be under the counter gun show deals(yes they do happen), gun store owners not doing do full background checks with waiting periods or person to person sales.

As for the whole assault weapon, big magazine thing. I say ban all of them. Let's face the fact that there is no logical reason to own these other than to say we do and to make our selves feel cool. If you need a ar/ak/sks ect. with a thirty+ round clip to "hunt" then your a liar using an excuse. And if you use the invasion, uprising, race war, gov takeover ect excuse you simply shouldn't have a gun in the first place cause theres probly something wrong with you in the first place.

And yes they are using Sandy Hook as propaganda, as they have with all the other mass shootings that have taken place. We as a country have been arguing these issues for decades and nothing has changed. My question is how many more people have to die before we get off our asses and do something to change this. If I have to give up something small like not being able to own ar's or not being able to have high cap. mags and it means 1 child lives then I'm happy with that trade.

And there in lies the true issue, we hold our personal freedoms so tightly that the thought of giving an inch to gain a mile is lost on us. If we as a country want changes for the better than get off your ass and make it happen. Remember we have the power to change the gov to how ever we like, thats what democracy is for.

BIG +1

You hit it on the head.

[dannyyisntt]

As for the whole assault weapon, big magazine thing. I say ban all of them. Let's face the fact that there is no logical reason to own these other than to say we do and to make our selves feel cool. If you need a ar/ak/sks ect. with a thirty+ round clip to "hunt" then your a liar using an excuse. And if you use the invasion, uprising, race war, gov takeover ect excuse you simply shouldn't have a gun in the first place cause theres probly something wrong with you in the first place.

My family uses our AR's for competition shooting as well as hunting. Does that make us liars? Nope. Makes us sportsmen.

It's nice that you blatantly, if not blindly, trust the government and hold an idealistic mindset about their motives, but people that keep a suspicious eye on the government are what keep it honest. Not sheep that are willing to be sheered without questioning where their fur is going.

[z31maniac]

As for the whole assault weapon, big magazine thing. I say ban all of them. Let's face the fact that there is no logical reason to own these other than to say we do and to make our selves feel cool. If you need a ar/ak/sks ect. with a thirty+ round clip to "hunt" then your a liar using an excuse. And if you use the invasion, uprising, race war, gov takeover ect excuse you simply shouldn't have a gun in the first place cause theres probly something wrong with you in the first place.

I'm with sleeve that you don't know shit.

Assault weapon is a made up term by the lefties in the late 80s to demonize semi-automatic hunting rifles that look like ASSAULT RIFLES. ASSAULT RIFLES are the FULL AUTO weapons the military uses and full auto weapons have been banned for sale to the public for decades.

In 2011 "assault weapons" were used in 0.6% of gun crime. When the "assault weapon" ban was allowed to sunset in 2004 the DOJ said if it continued the results would be so negligible as to not be measurable.

[z31maniac]

And yes they are using Sandy Hook as propaganda, as they have with all the other mass shootings that have taken place. We as a country have been arguing these issues for decades and nothing has changed. My question is how many more people have to die before we get off our asses and do something to change this. If I have to give up something small like not being able to own ar's or not being able to have high cap. mags and it means 1 child lives then I'm happy with that trade.

The OKC Bombing killed 168 people including 19 children under the age of 6 and injured another 680.

So I don't think you should be allowed to buy fertilizer, diesel fuel, or rent box trucks anymore either.

[Exodus_2pt0]

It's nice that you blatantly, if not blindly, trust the government and hold an idealistic mindset about their motives, but people that keep a suspicious eye on the government are what keep it honest. Not sheep that are willing to be sheered without questioning where their fur is going.

Wait, you mean history has a tendency to repeat itself? Bollocks, our government always has our best interest at hand. I want to be treated like a child dammit!

I think this sums the situation our great Country has found itself in.

I want people to take thought about their condition and to recognize that the maintainence of a free society is a very difficult and complicated thing and it requires a self-denying ordinance of the most extreme kind. It requires a willingness to put up with temporary evils on the basis of the subtle and sophisticated understanding that if you step in to do something about them you not only may make them worse, you will spread your tenticles and get bad results elsewhere.

Why oh why cannot people see the world the way it is? The world can be beautiful, and it can be down right ugly. I choose to see the beauty, while preparing for the ugly if it rears it's head. Just because I have not been the victim of a violent crime in my life, or a forcefully oppressive government does not mean that I should hand in my guns and pretend that I will never need them.

Also, prohibition does not work. It is just an excuse to throw into jail, those who won't fall in line.

[sumoashe]

MrSleeve. Attacking me personally is not gonna help your points of view come across. And don't take this personally, but constantly quoting ben franklin is retarded. Your using views of a man that lived in a different time period. With differing issues related to that time period. It has little to do with the current social climate and issues.

As far as the terminology thing, think of it the same as people use soda or pop in different parts of the country. And again don't take this personally but you kinda sound like a paranoid person, the constant "I need my guns for when the gov tries to take my rights" statements don't help. It's kinda like the crazy guy calling others crazy.

Guns don't preserve rights, cause if it comes to needing guns for that any rights you might be fighting for are already gone. At that point your using guns to protect you and your loved ones, not your rights. This is america after all, if you want to preserve your rights get out and vote, lobby, run for office. You know, the things that actually effect and shape your rights. We fought the revolutionary war to be able to establish these rights, not protect them. Theres a difference.

And it's not talking out of both sides of my mouth. I'm simply educated enough to be able look at both sides of the issue with an open mind. The answers are never left or right, they lay in the middle. And whats wrong with being progressive, progress is what moves things forward. Thats kinda the definition. (And personally I dont buy into any political party, parties are screwing this country up). This is a prime example of why theres an issue in the first place. Your so set in your ideology that anything outside of it is instantly wrong and berated. Thats simply being closed minded. This is why our country is spiraling to the gutter.

If your so worried about your freedoms, rights, and having them taken away then why not leave to a country that fits your ideology better. My suggestion would be Papua new guinea, you can have all the guns you want and theres no real goverment to take them away. Or theres plenty of good sized islands through out the world for sale where you could have ultimate freedom. Even creating your own micro-country there isnt that hard. I dont mean this in a mean spirited way, but as a legit question/comment. I have little faith in this country as a whole, whether that be the gov or the people, and am honestly looking at leaving to really experience what the rest of the world has to offer. I love the idea of america, what its supposed to stand for. But the reality our country doesn't match, this is not the country our ancestors fought and died for. I have a feeling they would be appalled and ashamed at what we've turned it into.

[Exodus_2pt0]

Your using views of a man that lived in a different time period. With differing issues related to that time period. It has little to do with the current social climate and issues.

Please enlighten us as to what has changed so much, that we should be changing a document that only concerns itself with certain rights born to every living being. The only difference I see is that we now have superior technology, which doesn't really change much in the way of human nature.

On the other hand, I can see both sides here, but banning something is never the solution. How about we focus on a responsible future of intelligent free thinking individuals.