Why you feel america is failing

[Dozyproductions]

^

Is it really


and Progressiveism is a disease

In regards with the previous post then yes. Patriotism is something used to further guide and divide public opinion. In it's purest form I see the intent is good but things have been getting dirty for a while now.

You cannot move human existence forward without progression. As the world moves forward so must the views of it. Otherwise we are simply doomed to constantly repeat the mistakes of past generations, learning nothing from it.

You want modern day antiprogressive culture, look no further than iran, north korea, and most of the civil war ravaged area's in africa. Is that what you really want?

Just because a group can be labeled as progressive, doesn't mean they follow the ideals of what their title implies. Do you think the Conservatives are really conservatives?

while I will concede the point on Jesus, let me refresh your memory re the Founders and God-

He ask what specific morals/ideas, which can only be attributed to/from/for Christianity, are in our Constitution?

[2761377]

, wherein their beliefs are not based on the judeo-christian structure of religion. When they use the term "Nature's god" they are not speaking of the christian idea of god. .

offer proof of this, please.

the text refers to a Creator of mankind- whether you wish to use upper or lower case 'g', it obviously is counter to the atheistic belief that there is no supreme being.

which brings up the point- while i cannot prove His existence, neither can you/other atheists disprove it.

also, the Spanish Inquistion was not about persecuting the Jews per se, but all heresy/rebellion against the King and Queen of Spain. much like the persecution of Jesus, it was mostly secular repression.

not only did Columbus sail for the Indies in 1492, that was also the year Christians/European Spaniards finally succeeded kicking out the last of the Moors, the Arabic Muslims who conquered Iberia during Mohammed's Jihad.

[sumoashe]

Just because a group can be labeled as progressive, doesn't mean they follow the ideals of what their title implies. Do you think the Conservatives are really conservatives?

Not at all, it's just a general statement. Just the same as republican's are no longer republican's. Or dems, or libs. It's all come down to dogma to separate party lines. The ideals each of these groups cling to are the same they act against. Politics, or more accurately money, has become the new religion in this country.

Americanism is a religion.

This is true to the extent that just as in religion anything outside of the belief structure is seen as wrong. Even when faced with irrefutable facts. Think of the ways we cling to the idea that our health care, education, ect. is the greatest in the world. Yet every study point's to the fact that this is completely untrue. Yet instead of doing something to fix it we simply cling to the dogma of it.

[sumoashe]

offer proof of this, please.

Again simple, just look up the basics of masonic belief structure.

Candidates for regular Freemasonry are required to declare a belief in a Supreme Being.[33] However, the candidate is not asked to expand on, or explain, his interpretation of Supreme Being. The discussion of politics and religion is forbidden within a Masonic Lodge, in part so a Mason will not be placed in the situation of having to justify his personal interpretation.[34] Thus, a Christian Mason will interpret the term "Supreme Being" in a Christian context, while a Muslim Mason will interpret it in a Muslim context, and a Hindu Mason will interpret it in a Hindu context, (etc.). While most Freemasons would take the view that the term Supreme Being equates to God, others may hold a more complex or philosophical interpretation of the term.
In the ritual, the Supreme Being is referred to as the Great Architect of the Universe, which alludes to the use of architectural symbolism within Freemasonry

This can even be used for belief in Alien intervention in our evolution if you want. Just as an example.

which brings up the point- while i cannot prove His existence, neither can you/other atheists disprove it.

I also don't believe in unicorns, dragons, and magic. Although magic to you would be called miracles. Beyond the fact that your dogma has been altered through out history by man, only need to look at the rewriting of the old testament to the new. Your ideals were altered by men for men, not by a holy being. And the fact that 90% of all biblical stories are based on those of cultures that came centuries before refute the written by god aspect of it.

But this is not a discussion of religious beliefs, it's one of societal evolution. I have no issue's with your beliefs, but don't try to use them as a factual bases. Cause there not facts, there beliefs. It's the same as me trying to use the morals of a child's story to back up factual based ideas.

[mrsleeve]

Its become obvious that most of you don't really understand what the progresive movement is about

[sumoashe]

Progressivism is a general political philosophy advocating or favoring gradual social, political, and economic reform.[1] Modern Progressivism emerged as part of a more general response to the vast social changes brought by industrialization.
It is left of center in the political spectrum and is to be contrasted with conservatism on the right and the revolutionary left, the former generally resisting changes it advocates and the latter rejecting its gradualism.

The Progressive Era was a period of social activism and political reform in the United States that flourished from the 1890s to the 1920s.[1] One main goal of the Progressive movement was purification of government, as Progressives tried to eliminate corruption by exposing and undercutting political machines and bosses. Many (but not all) Progressives supported prohibition in order to destroy the political power of local bosses based in saloons.[2] At the same time, women's suffrage was promoted to bring a "purer" female vote into the arena.[3] A second theme was achieving efficiency in every sector by identifying old ways that needed modernizing, and emphasizing scientific, medical and engineering solutions.

Yeah I know sleeve, this all sounds so horrible doesn't it. Equal rights, government accountability. Such horrors should never been allowed in america.

[sumoashe]

Granted some of their ideals were abit miss guided, such as prohibition. But to me it's a hell of alot better then the same ol same ol. Would you rather corruption go unchecked, the people become slaves to the ruling class? Oh wait, we already have that.

[evandael]

offer proof of this, please.

the text refers to a Creator of mankind- whether you wish to use upper or lower case 'g', it obviously is counter to the atheistic belief that there is no supreme being.

seriously dude? there is no supreme being. humans made it up to explain shit they saw.

[mrsleeve]

Yeah I know sleeve, this all sounds so horrible doesn't it. Equal rights, government accountability. Such horrors should never been allowed in america.

Too bad none of that is what has come from the progressives

Look at the willson admin for what the progressives are all about..................

[sumoashe]

Sleeve, you know as well as I that you cannot misconstrue or discredit it based upon the actions of those within it. Look at the current republican party, they are so far gone from their party beliefs that they can hardly be called republicans. The ideals hold true, even if the actions of it's members don't uphold them.

[sumoashe]

It's akin to saying all mechanics are bad because you had one bad mechanic. You can't judge the whole based on the one. There's always going to be a bad apple in any group, doesn't make the group bad. It's the same argument you use for gun control.

[uofom3]

Look around R3v and the topics that get posted, look at the filth our media outlets push on us - and we gobble up. I'm by no means a purist, but these forces are starting to get to people younger and younger. Remember that article about the grade schoolers having an orgy when the teacher was gone? It's shit like that which makes me say "well, we're fucked." We are going to destroy ourselves from the inside out.

[getouth]

I am Glad to see R3V looking into this issue. I am in middle management in the US Navy and in the last 10 years I've had the opportunity of traveling to 20 different countries Europe and the Far East. Most Americans have what i call "A false sense of entitlement". We are the land of the free and the home of the brave because we were for many years proactive and not re-active. I currently live in Japan and I witness the Japaneese live a better life with half the resources and opportunities than the average American. The major problems are as follows: PARENTING, EDUCATION, LACK OF AMBITION, LACK OF DISCIPLINE, ARROGANCE AND UNDER ESTIMATING OTHER COUNTRIES. Americas has been procrastinating alot lately! "Procrastination is like masturabation.....you always end up F*@%ing yourself". I could go on for days but this is just my $0.02.

[Q5Quint]

....."Procrastination is like masturabation.....you always end up F*@%ing yourself". I could go on for days but this is just my $0.02.

Exactly.

I think it comes down to 'values'.

When we think of america we think of these traditional 'values':
Hard work
Family
Usually 'christian' morals, whatever that means
And the 'farm' mentaility- build it and live off it

But how much of that do we actually do?

Hard work: I have plenty of friends that have been busting their assess trying to get ahead but can't because the jobs no longer exist. They usually end up creating their own jobs- and they are the only people I know making a decent living. Most people just go to work to get a few $$ to blow on new shoes and beer or a new tv, never thinking of tomorrow or trying to make things better. What are we doing as a society to promote 'hard work' and reward those that do it?

I have many friends that graduated college and then.... no jobs anywhere. I am glad for my education.... but at a 40k price tag and the fact that I could have made just as much money NOT going to college.... WHY did you dicks say it was so important for me to go and get drunk for 4 years straight so I could make a extra 300$ a month payment later? I am extremely lucky to make what I do, and can't imagine trying to make it on a waitresses wages.

Family: I've been to 6 weddings and 4 divorces. All of my friends that have kids had an accident, except 1. My boss. They waited until they both had been working career jobs for 20 years before having a baby girl. It is hard to have a kid when you are 40, technically, but you are way more able to hold your shit together at that point than at 20 years old. And you have savings, and a rv, and a boat, and the ability to pay for her college without a loan. It is much harder to raise a child today than it was 20 years ago, than it was 40 years ago, simply because a kid is expensive as hell. And if you are working a minimum wage job.... goodluck even paying the hospital bill. I am not saying you shouldn't have a kid at 20, my parents waited till they were almost 30 and still had a tough time, but if you have to bust your ass to make ends meet anyway then tossing a baby in there will not make it better. What are we doing as a society to promote 'family'?

'Christian Morals': I was raised Methodist, Baptist, and Presbyterian in a super-southern atmosphere so I think I understand this. Some people hate it but I understand it much better because I had a kick-ass Presbyterian church to go to with my friends when I was in highschool. All the westboro church bullshit you see on tv makes the 'good' churches look pretty bad. And they are all assuredly not 'good' churches when rich old white dudes are running them. It pisses me off to no end when, as a Christian, you have a moral duty to help the poor, the sick, bring in the sinners to the good word of Jesus etc and yet somehow your political lobby does exactly the opposite of that. We build free health clinics and homes for the poor in Honduras but won't do it in our own country. That is odd. Why? What are we doing to promote these 'christian values'? Deny gays and blacks and women the right to vote? That is not what we should be focusing on, as 'Christians'.

The farm mentality. Also 2.5 kids and a white picket fence.:
We have sold our farms and sold ourselves into mortgage slavery to achieve this 'dream'. What happened to building it yourself, from your land, for your family? Did we sell out our own dreams for a quick buck? Yes. Did we sell out hard work and labor and family for a quick buck, or a quick mortgage for the rest of our lives? Yes.

I remember in highschool doing those little surveys to figure out 'what you wanted to be when you grow up. At the end of the day it wasn't about helping society, it wasn't about making our country great, it wasn't about providing for your family, it was about making as much money as possible.

The problem with america today is that 'most people' only focus on making as much money as possible the easiest way possible and feel they 'deserve' the farm and the white picket fence and family. Without the hard work. I blame my grandparents ww2 generation for working so hard and building up all this stuff from nothing... so their kids inherit it and sell it out for a quick buck.... and have a lot for no work.... and we have a generation of trust-funders and people who literally don't know how to work. How the hell can you be 26 and have never had a job? Thanks somebody for working hard for it, long ago.

Thanks mom and dad for buying me a ratty $1200 318 when I was 16 and telling me to get a job. You taught me how to respect hard work and money. Thanks Peace Presbyterian church for having a male and female pastor, and having the only korean AND sign language services in the whole city, and teaching me that the church is supposed to embrace diversity and all people, and to not ever shut them out.

Only the ones who have forgotten their values, and are selling it all out for a buck, are the ones failing.

[mar1t1me]

But this is not a discussion of religious beliefs, it's one of societal evolution. I have no issue's with your beliefs, but don't try to use them as a factual bases. Cause there not facts, there beliefs. It's the same as me trying to use the morals of a child's story to back up factual based ideas.

Which is exactly the problem with Creation Science pushers whose actions are insult to faith and an affront to logic. They push their own set of accepted "facts" because they find the conclusions reached by actual scientific inquiry to be icky and inconvenient. Then they blame the decline of society on anything other than themselves.

Why are the believers in life in the next world so intent on possessing power in this one? Why aren't they OK with saying "here: you believe what you want over there, and we'll practice they way we want to, and all will be fine"? But they can't. They cannot rest until all knees are bent unto their God. So they fight holy wars and engage in ethnic cleansings and genocide all to prove their God is better. How's that for decline?

If the adoption of official religions was so helpful to civilizations, then the Romans ought to still be around.....but as always, religion became a tool of division rather than inclusion. In the words of the late Hitchens, "Religion poisons everything". And it is poisoning America right this very minute.