Seattle raises minimum wage to $15/hr

[mrsleeve]

Nando: I agree, but sadly far too many people in our society equate them to mean the same thing..... You made the point your self about the skills gap and why its happening and this another unintended consequence of that. Education is open to interpretation, and there are may ways and types of education, some just have a more specialized in what they need to know education vs the more socially accepted "well rounded" liberal arts education thats all. I use lots of fancy math and physics in my line of work every day to do my job correctly, that on a several occasions "educated" people cant wrap their heads around how and why it works or that I have to do something a certain way. How about pipe fitters, fuck some of the math skills a good fitter has to know and will use on a daily basis to make a months work and millions of dollars worth of materials fit with in a 1/32 of an inch will make even "educated" people go wow.... But then again you know this already ;)

Buddy: Yes there are trade offs, and just getting your Certs to run a crane is going to put you in a 25-40 ton R/T unit or running a boom truck for at lest 5 years, where you are not going to be making a huge pay check. 500ton and up and Tower guys are the 50-100 bucks an hour straight time guys. Crane hands dont fall into the "incredibly dangerous occupation" category. Risky sometimes yes, mildly dangerous at times yes, but not thinking your going to die every day you set foot on the job. If you look at most crane accidents it stems for not following your safety regs, and letting the time table of the job over ride the operators better judgment.

you risk your life just driving to work, and in fact in most cases now that is the most dangerous part of your day even as a construction hand, 30 feet down or 300 feet in the air. Honestly most of the fatalities in my industry ( its a small community even with all the trades involved word spreads fast) the last few years have been in traffic crashes either to and from work or running from site to site on the same job.

[z31maniac]

Buddy: Yes there are trade offs, and just getting your Certs to run a crane is going to put you in a 25-40 ton R/T unit or running a boom truck for at lest 5 years, where you are not going to be making a huge pay check. 500ton and up and Tower guys are the 50-100 bucks an hour straight time guys. Crane hands dont fall into the "incredibly dangerous occupation" category. Risky sometimes yes, mildly dangerous at times yes, but not thinking your going to die every day you set foot on the job. If you look at most crane accidents it stems for not following your safety regs, and letting the time table of the job over ride the operators better judgment.

You realize I write the manuals for a company that makes RCI/LMI equipment, right?

Our stuff is on Terex, Manitex, Altec, Broderson, and Badger cranes.

I'm incredibly familiar with the market. ;)

[smooth]

You realize I write the manuals for a company that makes RCI/LMI equipment, right?

doesn't really matter since it's just a pretext for him to go on his usual rant that he'll insert into any tangentially wage-related discussion which goes something like this:

if you're willing to work hard, you'll make a good living
if you're not making a good living, you must not be willing to work hard
hard workers have good moral fiber
if you aren't a hard worker you must not have good moral fiber

therefore, if you make crap wages you must not have good moral fiber and, as such, don't get any sympathy from him

[mrsleeve]

^
Nice try, Fairly sure I am on record many times over that there is more to a good living that "just" hard work. Though it is one of the more important factors. Most people want the money but dont want to work the 60-100 hours a week to get it, One of the main reasons why 85-90% of green hands in my business dont last the 1st year and at least 2/3's of the those dont last their 1st job.

You realize I write the manuals for a company that makes RCI/LMI equipment, right?

Our stuff is on Terex, Manitex, Altec, Broderson, and Badger cranes.

I'm incredibly familiar with the market. ;)

I knew you had changed companies "recently" did not know you were writing the dust covered books that stay in the plastic behind the seat and looked at only during inspection time for lifting equipment ;)

[CorvallisBMW]

^
Most people want the money but dont want to work the 60-100 hours a week to get it,

No sane person does want to work that many hours, unless they literally have no life, no friends, no significant other, and no desire to ever have fun. Work/life balance is important, if you think people need to work 60+ hours just to make it in this world, I feel bad for you:/ you've been lied to.

[BraveUlysses]

Not to mention that there's a reason that we settled on a 40 hour workweek. I've done the overtime thing enough to know that you really need a good work/life balance.

[ParsedOut]

No sane person does want to work that many hours, unless they literally have no life, no friends, no significant other, and no desire to ever have fun. Work/life balance is important, if you think people need to work 60+ hours just to make it in this world, I feel bad for you:/ you've been lied to.

So to dig yourself out of a minimum wage dead end job you shouldn't have to put in more than 40 hours a week? No fucking wonder we're having this debate... :loco:

Not to mention that there's a reason that we settled on a 40 hour workweek. I've done the overtime thing enough to know that you really need a good work/life balance.

You did it when you had to right? Good on you man. Work/life balance is important but you earn that by taking care of yourself and family first.

[Dozyproductions]

I could be totally wrong....but managment loves to make up numbers like that.

I don't know about your workplaces details, but I've heard that song and dance many times when I was in my 20-30's. It's the management's job to convince you that they can't possibly give you a raise. "We'll all go under! Do you want to be out of a Job!?!?!?"

It's management 101. Keep the employees scared, and only pay them enough to get by.

such assumptions my friend and as such will they stay. Could be that economics 101 is at work.

[CorvallisBMW]

So to dig yourself out of a minimum wage dead end job you shouldn't have to put in more than 40 hours a week? No fucking wonder we're having this debate... :loco:

Correct.

The standard work week is 40 hours. You shouldn't have to work more than that in order to get anything better than minimum wage. Does that mean you can't work more than 40? Of course not. But it shouldn't be, and rightfully isn't, a requirement.

What world were you raised in that requires anyone wanting to make a decent living be forced to abandon their work/life balance and work OT for ever and ever?

[nando]

I don't make minimum wage and I've been working 60 hours a week for months. it's not good to work that much.

I'm exhausted. but, I also realize it's not always this busy. Some guys have been doing 80+ but I have a wife and kids. I cut both of my (not very long) vacations short because I had things I needed to get done at work.

On the bright side I figure I can take a couple month sabbatical if things slow down because I'll have tons of vacation time built up.. if I don't get hit by a truck or shot by some gun nut before I can use it. ;)

[ParsedOut]

Correct.

The standard work week is 40 hours. You shouldn't have to work more than that in order to get anything better than minimum wage. Does that mean you can't work more than 40? Of course not. But it shouldn't be, and rightfully isn't, a requirement.

What world were you raised in that requires anyone wanting to make a decent living be forced to abandon their work/life balance and work OT for ever and ever?

I was raised in a world that rewards hard work and smart decisions. (yes, I'm still fucking that chicken)

You said ever and ever, I said in order to dig out of minimum wage and support yourself and family...I'm not surprised you can't tell the difference.

[einhander]

Your high horse needs to put down the spliff.

[LowR3V'in]

You guys are jacking each other off in here.

[jalopi]

[george graves]

such assumptions my friend and as such will they stay. Could be that economics 101 is at work.

You're right. Could very well be. But file that one away, and see if you ever notice a trend as you go from employer to employer. I'll bet you will.

Heck, once you get to middle management level, you won't believe how much time the managers/owners spend talking about employees and how much time they spend thinking about them. It's really creepy. Their job is you in a way.

I once had a boss say to me(true story) that....he was secretly hoping my car(e21) would break down, and that I would get a loan for a new/used car. Reason: So that I would have more bills to pay with my extra money, and therefore less likely to jump ship and go onto other things.

Same reason why if you're married, and have kids, you'll get a higher salary then someone single. A single guy might save up that money, and go on a job hunt. The married guy will be scared to not pay his mortgage.

Then again, I didn't take economics 101.