Seattle raises minimum wage to $15/hr

[smooth]

^
Nice try, Fairly sure I am on record many times over that there is more to a good living that "just" hard work. Though it is one of the more important factors. Most people want the money but dont want to work the 60-100 hours a week to get it, One of the main reasons why 85-90% of green hands in my business dont last the 1st year and at least 2/3's of the those dont last their 1st job.

you've got your blinders ratcheted down so tight that you probably don't realize you just went double down on your argument instead of refuting what I wrote

[mrsleeve]

As usual cant see forest due to trees getting in your line of sight.

You can go find other posts of mine on this topic and see for your self. Yup I am big believer in hard work, never have I said its only factor, I use my industry as an example where hard work will get you ahead and make you a upper middle class income in the process. there is piles of money to be made and lots of great opportunity for advancement for average joe off the street with a little ambition, and work ethic and willingness to learn. Sadly most dont seem to have that.

The energy biz where we work 7-12+ on regular basis must be an enigma to you bankers hours and academic types.


I guess the term making hay while the sun is shining would be lost on most of you........

[smooth]

As usual cant see forest due to trees getting in your line of sight.

You can go find other posts of mine on this topic and see for your self. Yup I am big believer in hard work, never have I said its only factor, I use my industry as an example where hard work will get you ahead and make you a upper middle class income in the process. there is piles of money to be made and lots of great opportunity for advancement for average joe off the street with a little ambition, and work ethic and willingness to learn. Sadly most dont seem to have that.

The energy biz where we work 7-12+ on regular basis must be an enigma to you bankers hours and academic types.


I guess the term making hay while the sun is shining would be lost on most of you........

why do you keep repeating yourself? I don't need to dig up all your posts...you're like a broken record.

you still haven't disputed what I wrote: you think that if someone isn't making a decent living it's because they don't have a good work ethic

you just said that again for the third time. what's your malfunction? do you not realize that's what your saying?

[BraveUlysses]

So to dig yourself out of a minimum wage dead end job you shouldn't have to put in more than 40 hours a week? No fucking wonder we're having this debate... :loco:

You need to realize that most people aren't going to be able to make a significant change in their income level by working a second minimum wage job. 40hr workweeks were a creation of the 40's and 50's by business owners who quickly realized that workers become less productive as they work past a certain amount of hours per week.

Most employers won't pay for minimum wage workers to work overtime, and even if they did, it's very marginal gain for the low wage worker.

It's really convenient for sleeve to stand around and just keep repeating boring, obvious shit about working hard but he benefits from a union contract that will pay time and a half or 2x or even higher for his overtime.

You did it when you had to right? Good on you man. Work/life balance is important but you earn that by taking care of yourself and family first.

Well the money was nice but to be honest, i was newly married and all the extra work, stress and time away from home was more of a detriment than having the extra money. Nor did it get me anywhere further in my career.

why do you keep repeating yourself? I don't need to dig up all your posts...you're like a broken record.

you still haven't disputed what I wrote: you think that if someone isn't making a decent living it's because they don't have a good work ethic

you just said that again for the third time. what's your malfunction? do you not realize that's what your saying?

it's because he doesn't really have anything to say. incidentally, this is why so many of his posts are incoherent or factually incorrect

[The Dark Side of Will]

You need to realize that most people aren't going to be able to make a significant change in their income level by working a second minimum wage job. 40hr workweeks were a creation of the 40's and 50's by business owners who quickly realized that workers become less productive as they work past a certain amount of hours per week.

Most employers won't pay for minimum wage workers to work overtime, and even if they did, it's very marginal gain for the low wage worker.

many of his posts are incoherent or factually incorrect

Speaking of factually incorrect...

Look up "Fair Labor Standards Act" (which, as it instituted the Federal minimum wage, should be pretty integral to this discussion) enacted in 1938, guaranteeing overtime pay (first to certain industries/trades, and amended later for employment in general)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Labor_Standards_Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day

The eight hour day was basically established in the now developed world around the turn of the 20th century.

[mrsleeve]

why do you keep repeating yourself? I don't need to dig up all your posts...you're like a broken record.

you still haven't disputed what I wrote: you think that if someone isn't making a decent living it's because they don't have a good work ethic

you just said that again for the third time. what's your malfunction? do you not realize that's what your saying?

Because it totally disproves your entire argument. There are jobs, places and entire industries that with nothing but a bit of hard work will get you a good living, my personal expierance is not just some unique .

Lots of professionals still put in lots of OT weeks even after they top out, Docs work lots of 100 hour weeks during residency, we have several here in my area that have their own practice and then go work at the urgent care's in the evenings, I have a friend of mine that is a dentist, with his own practice, he works lots of 55-60 hour weeks to meet his demand. Lawyers are known for working long hours on big cases.

Working hard at something does not always entail using your back, I assume you worked hard while you getting "learned" right? Did you have to put more than 40 hours a week into your "learnin" to get your degrees???

The mere fact that so many of cringe at the very thought of working more than 40 hours in a week says a lot about how you view your job and what you think you deserve.

[BraveUlysses]

ITT sleeve proves he doesn't understand the difference between working overtime and working 50-60 hours a week on salary.

[z31maniac]

ITT sleeve proves he likes being alone and living out of a suitcase and wears it like a badge of honor.

[mrsleeve]

I dont like it buddy, but I do what I have to do to support my family and earn enough money to allow them and my self to live a comfortable life style. I guess I am old school that way, as the man of the house its my job to provide, and provide in the best means possible.

Brave: I thought the 40 hour week was standard a standard week, why would your methodology of compensation make 2 shits of difference??? Moving goal posts much, Oh wait your work on salary so it ok if you work more, but if your hourly that somehow is different??? 50= hours at work in a week is 50+ hours at work, and cuts well into "ME" time, I thought we were opposed to such nonsense???? Or are you bitter because your not getting extra compensation to work those extra hours????

[BraveUlysses]

Brave: I thought the 40 hour week was standard a standard week, why would your methodology of compensation make 2 shits of difference??? Moving goal posts much, Oh wait your work on salary so it ok if you work more, but if your hourly that somehow is different??? 50= hours at work in a week is 50+ hours at work, and cuts well into "ME" time, I thought we were opposed to such nonsense???? Or are you bitter because your not getting extra compensation to work those extra hours????

Wrong. I am paid overtime if I am asked or willingly choose to do so.

You're the one who moved the goalposts when you brought up highly paid salaries for doctors, lawyers and dentists:

Lots of professionals still put in lots of OT weeks even after they top out, Docs work lots of 100 hour weeks during residency, we have several here in my area that have their own practice and then go work at the urgent care's in the evenings, I have a friend of mine that is a dentist, with his own practice, he works lots of 55-60 hour weeks to meet his demand. Lawyers are known for working long hours on big cases.

I don't know what point you were trying to make but I really don't think you do either.

[smooth]

Working hard at something does not always entail using your back, I assume you worked hard while you getting "learned" right? Did you have to put more than 40 hours a week into your "learnin" to get your degrees???

I put more than 40 hours of week into multiple jobs while I was putting myself through college.

I worked as a grocery boy for minimum wage as many hours as they'd let me, I came back on the weekends in the middle of the night to work with the guy stripping and waxing the floors for extra money, and I laid carpet, tile, and wood flooring during the day. One of the local flooring companies got word of me and offered me a solid 9 to 5'er if I'd quit all the other things taking up my time so they could put me behind a desk doing estimates.

And that's not so different from my grandpa. He dropped out of high school (in fact, none of my family has graduated from high school on either side of my grandparents--both grandmas and grandpas--except for my mom. she put herself through night school when I was in high school to become a paralegal while working full time as a clerk at the fire house), and worked construction. Eventually an adjuster for the bank was assessing one of the work sites, talked to my grandpa, and told him his working knowledge would serve well at the bank. So he worked at the bank and eventually rose through the management ranks--until a large bank bought the local one he had worked at for decades.

How often do you think those scenarios occur?

When I was in high school, I worked at taco bell for 8 hours until midnight. Then I worked 2nd shift at KFC until 8 am. Then I hot-tailed it to my classes and promptly fell asleep instead of listening to the teacher.

So I feel like I know a bit about "work" in the traditional sense of the word. The difference between me and you isn't my work ethic, it's that I don't repeatedly argue that simply because I somehow "made it" in my life trajectory that everyone has the same opportunities as me. Nor do I invert that logic and argue that if people don't somehow obtain those opportunities that they're somehow personal responsible for something that is more likely caused by macro changes in our economic structure.

Whenever you turn the discussion personal against me, you just look like a fool. You have no idea who you're talking to, nothing about my life history, but if you want to start going down that path with me I'm going to 10:1 every single hard luck and unlikely success story you can conjure up, bud, so have at it you're just making yourself look ignorant.

[z31maniac]

I dont like it buddy, but I do what I have to do to support my family and earn enough money to allow them and my self to live a comfortable life style. I guess I am old school that way, as the man of the house its my job to provide, and provide in the best means possible.

That's awfully sexist.

[Dozyproductions]

You're right. Could very well be. But file that one away, and see if you ever notice a trend as you go from employer to employer. I'll bet you will.

Heck, once you get to middle management level, you won't believe how much time the managers/owners spend talking about employees and how much time they spend thinking about them. It's really creepy. Their job is you in a way.

I once had a boss say to me(true story) that....he was secretly hoping my car(e21) would break down, and that I would get a loan for a new/used car. Reason: So that I would have more bills to pay with my extra money, and therefore less likely to jump ship and go onto other things.

Same reason why if you're married, and have kids, you'll get a higher salary then someone single. A single guy might save up that money, and go on a job hunt. The married guy will be scared to not pay his mortgage.

Then again, I didn't take economics 101.

Some crazy things you've seen that I have yet to and hopefully wont. Breaking a leg can can be said for good luck but saying I hope your car breaks is just asking for bad ju ju.

My work is incorporated but is more employee based than it's business title would suggest. Im no econ guru ibut ts just that the overhead for restaurants is tiny and if that gap lessens, even just a sliver, then the restaurant has to compensate somehow. The entire hospitality industry suffers with higher wages.

[Dozyproductions]

That's awfully sexist.

You're willing to grasp for any straw aren't you? He wears the non gender pants then?

[smooth]

The entire hospitality industry suffers with higher wages.

There's actually a lot of historical data on this, and while it makes intuitive sense that higher wages might cause businesses to suffer, the historical evidence indicates the opposite occurs. There is a lot of discussion why this turns out to be true, but the bottom line is that it's what the evidence demonstrates regardless of our gut feelings.

But just to put it in perspective, you're working in La Jolla where the cost of living is one of the highest in the San Diego area and relative to the rest of the country for that matter. Raising a platter's price a dollar isn't going to make an appreciable dent in your regular customer's wallet. In fact, most of them would probably support that (but you tell me if your tips are crap or decent--my suspicion is they're decent tippers for the most part) and the cost of parking is probably more at issue. I know you realize this since you're working there, but most people reading this might not realize the composition of the local area.