Let's talk about keeping the Highway Trust Fund solvent

[nando]

Yeah I'm not sure what regulations you'd want to decrease on refineries. in some places (like Richmond, CA) the bureaucracy is out of control, but mostly the regulations are effective at keeping these places clean and safe. Refineries would be hell holes without regulations - the owners won't ever invest a dime unless they absolutely have to.

and even if you did manage to find a way to cut regulations that saved the refineries a lot of money, those savings wouldn't get passed to consumers - they'd go straight to the top of the corporation (executives, major shareholders).

Some of them are still horrible even with the regulations we have now. If you want no regulations move to china. enjoy the permanent smog and poisoned farm land.

I'm not really aware of any redundant agencies and I've worked on some of the most heavily regulated refineries in the US.

[BraveUlysses]

Yeah I'm not sure what regulations you'd want to decrease on refineries. in some places (like Richmond, CA) the bureaucracy is out of control, but mostly the regulations are effective at keeping these places clean and safe. Refineries would be hell holes without regulations - the owners won't ever invest a dime unless they absolutely have to.

and even if you did manage to find a way to cut regulations that saved the refineries a lot of money, those savings wouldn't get passed to consumers - they'd go straight to the top of the corporation (executives, major shareholders).

Some of them are still horrible even with the regulations we have now. If you want no regulations move to china. enjoy the permanent smog and poisoned farm land.

I'm not really aware of any redundant agencies and I've worked on some of the most heavily regulated refineries in the US.

Oh, I know there's no real answer behind his rhetoric. It's more of the usual masturbatory language that we need to untax or unregulate everything because ~reasons~

[mrsleeve]

Oh, I know there's no real answer behind his rhetoric. It's more of the usual masturbatory language that we need to untax or unregulate everything because ~reasons~

do you suppose he could be referring to all the govt mandated blends of gas that local and state govt's FORCE refiners in some parts of the country to make in order to sell it with in their jurisdictions???? Which can account for a wide pricing differential from blend to blend based on the additives demanded be in the fuel.


According to this article there are at least 55 different blends sold though out the country and as many as 70 if not more. I seem to remember reading a few years back that 1 county in SoCal had 13 different mandatory blends sold depending on the location of the fuel purveyor with in the county....

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2012/1009/Why-do-gas-prices-vary-state-to-state-It-s-not-just-taxes

Oh wait RWNJ post that has no factual reality in Braves world.... Is your world anything like Wayne's word



Like I keep saying the last time we raised the Use taxes was 1993, to its current level at that time the CAFE standards for smaller cars was 25ish MPG I think. CAFE standards for 2016 are due to be pushing 35mpg, that's an increase of 40% !!!! Raise the Use taxes by about the same and you get an increase of 7.xx cents. Call the new use tax a quarter and go from there......

Edit:
Redundant oversight agencies, EPA, DOT, NHTSB, and limited IRS involvement..... I would not be surprised if the USDA has some limited dealings with how fuel is governed (oh wait it is ETHANOL subsidies) the DoD and a many other agencies have something to say about it.....

[nando]

yeah really the only thing to do is to tie the tax rate into MPG standards or charge tolls. Personally I'd prefer a sales tax increase, since it also makes polluters pay more (like my poor M20).

[mrsleeve]

Why a sales tax over a use tax. M20 uses more fuel than a modern 2.0 honda. Your already paying more than the honda, and would be paying more under a higher use tax. In states with a sales tax you will be paying more in sales tax as well if the use tax were to be raised. Since sales tax is charged ON TOP of all the fees and taxes built into the retail sale price of fuel. Yes your paying a sales tax on the money paid to cover your fed/state/local use taxes or environmental special assessments.

[BraveUlysses]

do you suppose he could be referring to all the govt mandated blends of gas that local and state govt's FORCE refiners in some parts of the country to make in order to sell it with in their jurisdictions???? Which can account for a wide pricing differential from blend to blend based on the additives demanded be in the fuel.

I dunno, maybe if he wanted to make that argument he could have? Thank Xenu we have you here to make his arguments for him.

According to this article there are at least 55 different blends sold though out the country and as many as 70 if not more. I seem to remember reading a few years back that 1 county in SoCal had 13 different mandatory blends sold depending on the location of the fuel purveyor with in the county....

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Energy-Voices/2012/1009/Why-do-gas-prices-vary-state-to-state-It-s-not-just-taxes

Oh wait RWNJ post that has no factual reality in Braves world.... Is your world anything like Wayne's word

Oh man are you self-identifying as a nutjob now? nice

[nando]

Why a sales tax over a use tax. M20 uses more fuel than a modern 2.0 honda. Your already paying more than the honda, and would be paying more under a higher use tax. In states with a sales tax you will be paying more in sales tax as well if the use tax were to be raised. Since sales tax is charged ON TOP of all the fees and taxes built into the retail sale price of fuel. Yes your paying a sales tax on the money paid to cover your fed/state/local use taxes or environmental special assessments.

Yeah, I understand I'd pay more. Of course I should - I'm using more fuel. I'm not sure but our state sales tax on fuel also goes to road improvements.

at least our bridges won't be collapsing and the potholes might get fixed, not to mention all the dangerous intersections that could be updated.

I read stuff on the CSmonitor all the time. I don't find it to be that bad - it's no faux news.

as far as gasoline blends there are good reasons for that - local climate and pollution. we have different fuel in the winter than we do in the summer. California is a little more extreme but I honestly don't think having the different blends is a big deal. They don't usually do the final blending until late anyway, and all they do is add the additives to the refined base fuel.

[BraveUlysses]

blending for different brands? no problem. blending for state or local requirements? unacceptable!

[frankenbeemer]

Thank Xenu we have you here to make his arguments for him.

I love a good Xenu reference!

[mrsleeve]

yeah winter and summer fuels are important, as are some things for both extreme hot or cold in parts of the country certain times of year no doubt. There is some necessity for particular blends, but in a place like SoCal that has a very stable environment where is the need for all the extra cost based on where your location to sell fuel is a given county?? I agree and you know as well as I that blends are not done until shortly before shipment, but some of those mandated and mostly unnecessary additives are very costly.

I dont know how WA distributes its tax revenue but you have one of the highest Use taxes on motor fuel at the state level as it is now.....


Brave I was just trying to save you the trouble of making a response

blending for different brands? no problem. blending for state or local requirements? unacceptable!

Thats proprietary and the free market making a product for sale to the consumer en-mass that needs to remain competitive with other producers of similar product to remain in business. If a consumer thinks the extra 3 cents a gallon or dime a gallon is worth it and benefits them thats up to them. Its branding and perception of quality product. The govt on the other hand mandating something unnecessary be added to a product based on which side of the road a fuel retailer is located on is an entirely different issue. Good try though, again things in Braves world dont align that well with the real world..

[einhander]

Go on, Michigan.

http://www.freep.com/article/20140515/NEWS06/305150032/

[Vedubin01]

if that is the case I would just re gear my bike and not calibrate the speedometer. Only drive the car very little if any at all.

What they have been doing down here on I-95 is the left two lanes are now Toll roads. Sometimes up to $8.50 to travel 8 or so miles. Lowest it drops is .50 cents like at 3am.

Again bikes defeat this by having fender elimination brackets.

Odometer fraud will sky rocket if that ever passes.

[einhander]

Ah, so you're a tax cheat. Cool. Good character you have.

[Vedubin01]

Ah, so you're a tax cheat. Cool. Good character you have.

where in that did I say I currently do that?


Exactly!

[BraveUlysses]

Good try though, again things in Braves world dont align that well with the real world..

My world? I'm pretty sure that this is another case of you making shit up and attributing it to me.