No one needs 15 rounds

[ParsedOut]

Hey, Tonto. Get off your horse.

[einhander]

I respect the point(s) you're trying to make here, but you'll never get through to some people. I've learned to never discuss politics or religion with family or people I consider friends...doing so anonymously on the internet is even more worthless. Fight the good fight on a local level, make sure your representatives know your stance, introduce open minded individuals to the sport of responsible shooting and gun ownership and support local businesses that share your views and avoid those that don't. Unless of course you feel like arguing with people and going around in endless circles, then by all means.

Hey, Tonto. Get off your horse.

Your justification for gun ownership is baffling. Talk about circles.

[einhander]

Quite the contrary, why are you so concerned about restricting magazine capacity if it is proven to make no difference?

Where has it been proven?

I'm genuinely asking. When I started this thread I thought the NJ law sounded reasonable. If there is a scientific finding to the contrary, I'm totally happy to accept it.

[Ikazamay]

A better quest would be to find homicide rates per capita of people in industrialized nations and see how it compares.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Can any of the gun-tards in this thread explain to me why the US has a gun homicide rate 20 times higher than other industrialized nations? Because to everyone who isn't full-blown, head-up-their-ass in denial about the facts, it's pretty obvious.

Why are we well below average in the developed world for other types of violent crime?

[The Dark Side of Will]

A google search about a book? What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

It's EXACTLY what you asked for.

Nope. Nitpicked quotes taken out of context from an interview 25 years ago does not consitute an active attempt to sieze all guns.

Of course it does. They'd do it openly in a heartbeat if they had the political capital. They're working on it via more subversive methods now... See current attempts to deny gun manufacturers and resellers credit and banking services through tactics of thuggery and intimidation without ANY legal foundation.

What about it? That it went down under the city's handgun ban, and has now gone back up since it was overturned?

That remark bears no resemblance to reality.

[CorvallisBMW]

Can any of the gun-tards in this thread explain to me why the US has a gun homicide rate 20 times higher than other industrialized nations? Because to everyone who isn't full-blown, head-up-their-ass in denial about the facts, it's pretty obvious.

Every country has mentally ill people. Every country struggles with crime, drug addiction and gangs. Every country has violence in video games, on TV and in movies. The only palpable thing that's different between us and them is the prevalence of guns in our country. And you can't have gun violence without guns. So to all of you superior-minded "patriots", why do we have this problem and not them? Explain your reasoning.

[CorvallisBMW]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=more+guns+less+crime

A google search about a book? What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

See quotes from DiFi and BO in the idiotic thread you started.

Nope. Nitpicked quotes taken out of context from an interview 25 years ago does not consitute an active attempt to sieze all guns.

Chicago murder rate

What about it? That it went down under the city's handgun ban, and has now gone back up since it was overturned?

You're not helping your case here....

[rwh11385]

More data and not just opinion: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=18319

Liberal media response:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/06/handguns_suicides_mass_shootings_deaths_and_self_defense_findings_from_a.html

These conclusions don’t line up perfectly with either side’s agenda. That’s a good reason to take them seriously—and to fund additional data collection and research that have been blocked by Congress over politics. Yes, the facts will surprise you. That’s why you should embrace them.

Most indices of crime and gun violence are getting better, not worse. “Overall crime rates have declined in the past decade, and violent crimes, including homicides specifically, have declined in the past 5 years,” the report notes. “Between 2005 and 2010, the percentage of firearm-related violent victimizations remained generally stable.” Meanwhile, “firearm-related death rates for youth ages 15 to 19 declined from 1994 to 2009.” Accidents are down, too: “Unintentional firearm-related deaths have steadily declined during the past century. The number of unintentional deaths due to firearm-related incidents accounted for less than 1 percent of all unintentional fatalities in 2010.”

Mass shootings aren’t the problem. “The number of public mass shootings of the type that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School accounted for a very small fraction of all firearm-related deaths,” says the report. “Since 1983 there have been 78 events in which 4 or more individuals were killed by a single perpetrator in 1 day in the United States, resulting in 547 victims and 476 injured persons.” Compare that with the 335,000 gun deaths between 2000 and 2010 alone.

Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.” But a much lower estimate of 108,000 also seems fishy, “because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.” Furthermore, “Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was 'used' by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”

Guns & Ammo response: http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/08/2...ires-on-obama/

Why No One Has Heard This
Given the CDC’s prior track record on guns, you may be surprised by the extent with which the new research refutes some of the anti-gun movement’s deepest convictions.

What are opponents of the Second Amendment doing about the new data? Perhaps predictably, they’re ignoring it. President Obama, Michael Bloomberg and the Brady Campaign remain silent. Most suspicious of all, the various media outlets that so eagerly anticipated the CDC research are looking the other way as well. One must wonder how media coverage of the CDC report may have differed, had the research more closely fit an anti-gun narrative.

http://www.guns.com/2013/06/27/cdc-r...cking-results/

It was found that there are vast differences in who is more likely to become a victim of gun violence, with primary factors lying in socioeconomic status and ethnicity. Homicide rates were shown to be significantly higher in African Americans, while suicide rates were higher in Caucasians.

Additionally, the study concluded that high rates of poverty, illicit drug trafficking and substance use all increase the risk of becoming involved in gun violence. In addition, “criminals often engage in violence as a means to acquire money, goods or other rewards.”

The study admitted that the results of interventions for reducing gun violence have been mixed, including strategies such as background checks and restriction of certain types of firearms, as well as having stricter penalties for illegal gun use. However, the study did reveal that “unauthorized gun possession or use is associated with higher rates of firearm violence than legal possession of guns.” In other words, law-breaking criminals are the ones most responsible for gun violence, not law-abiding citizens.

With the latest gun debate, there has been more emphasis placed on violent video games, movies and other media. However, the study’s findings on the influence of these things were inconclusive.

“The vast majority of research on the effects of violence in media has focused on violence portrayed in television and the movies, although more recent research has been expanded to include music, video games, social media, and the Internet. Interest in media effects is fueled by the fact that youth are spending more time engaging with media that portrays increasing amounts of violence. Although research on the effects of media violence on real-life violence has been carried out for more than 50 years, none of this research has focused on firearm violence in particular as an outcome. As a result, a direct relationship between violence in media and real-life firearm violence has not been established and additional research is necessary.”

The results of this study were surprisingly unbiased for the most part and closely resemble the findings from a similar study conducted following the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994, in which the CDC concluded that there was “insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of any of the firearms laws reviewed for preventing violence.”

So basically, the research that Obama called for and the anti-science peeps tried to prevent ended up pointing out how gun laws are ineffective and gun violence is mostly done by people who are criminals and related to poverty or drugs, so the media ignored it largely because it concludes that the messages being blasted by the left are generally mistaken. Talking about what you think will make you feel better about an issue is easier than actually thinking hard about the facts and data to see if it would really help or if you are barking up the wrong tree...

[The Dark Side of Will]

If you can show me any kind of data that proves more guns = less crime

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=more+guns+less+crime

, or that the government really is plotting to take all of your guns away,

See quotes from DiFi and BO in the idiotic thread you started.

or that gun control is not only ineffective by counter-effective,

Chicago murder rate

[ParsedOut]

Make sure you let your Congressman know you are worried about being invaded by foreign armies.

[rwh11385]

We already have millions of those, and it doesn't seem to be helping

Maybe if you didn't just read mother jones then you could see it does... but if you remain blind to anything other than biased information that supports your position then you will never see anything contrary to your assumptions.

In general helping to prevent or stop crime:

http://www.cato.org/guns-and-self-defense

Each pin represents a crime that was stopped by an armed citizen

Ending mass shootings or attempted mass shootings:
Pearl High School - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_H...ng#cite_note-8

Luke Woodham, 16, part of a satanic cult, stabbed and bludgeoned his mother before driving her car to Pearl High School in Pearl, Miss., where he shot dead two students and wounded seven others with a rifle he made no attempt to conceal. He then got back into his mother’s car and planned to go to Pearl Junior High School to kill some more. But assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieved a .45-caliber pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham.

Appalachian School of Law - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalac...f_Law_shooting

Attempted triple homicide at a gun store - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2911219/posts

Shoney's in Alambama - http://articles.latimes.com/1992-01-..._public-safety

two men armed with stolen pistols herded 20 customers and employees of a Shoney’s restaurant in Anniston, Ala., into a walk-in refrigerator and locked it so they could rob the establishment. However, one customer was armed with a .45-caliber handgun hidden under a table. He shot one of the gunmen dead. The other robber, who was holding the manager of the restaurant at gunpoint, began firing at the customer. But he was wounded critically by return fire, ending the incident.

Golden Food Market - http://www.collegiatetimes.com/opini...9361f62d4.html

an armed man entered the Golden Food Market in south Richmond, shooting and wounding a clerk while firing at store patrons. He was shot by another customer who had a concealed-carry permit, likely saving the lives of eight other people in the store.

AT&T store - http://www.wktv.com/news/local/95032689.html

Apartment - http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/colle...invader/nD9XG/

Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

“They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

The student then ran to the room where the second gunman, identified by police as 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, was holding the women.

“Apparently the guy was getting ready to rape his girlfriend. So he told the girls to get down and he started shooting. The guy jumped out of the window,” said Bailey.

Bar and Grill - http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/19251374.html

8th Grade Dance - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_...dance_shooting

New Life Church - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Co...Life_shootings

[einhander]

I respect the point(s) you're trying to make here, but you'll never get through to some people. I've learned to never discuss politics or religion with family or people I consider friends...doing so anonymously on the internet is even more worthless. Fight the good fight on a local level, make sure your representatives know your stance, introduce open minded individuals to the sport of responsible shooting and gun ownership and support local businesses that share your views and avoid those that don't. Unless of course you feel like arguing with people and going around in endless circles, then by all means.

Make sure you let your Congressman know you are worried about being invaded by foreign armies.

[AwakenNoMore]

Don't play video games much, and it's sweet of you to think of me jerking off. You really know how to flatter a guy.

[einhander]

Just here to pour gas on a fire:


Is your hoplophobia burning? Stay mad my friends.

The funny thing is I am in Afghanistan right now and you're at home in a cozy suburb playing video games and jerking off.

Enjoy fantasy world.