Standing Rock vs Dakota pipeline

[decay]

And that makes you hypersensitive to what you perceive as authoritarian. You seem to still operate in that mindset.

as a person who tries to pay attention to self-awareness, i will admit there is some truth in there.

but given that the ruling class in america is definitely a thing that exists- and that absolutely does not involve the left/right conversation to me- hillary and barbara boxer are all going to the same cocktail parties as trump and cheney's wife- you can find pictures of this

do you think i am wrong to feel this way?

i hope you understand- i've worked really hard since i got out of the army, and i've achieved some success, and i have the resources to do things like this now, so i'm doing what i believe is right.

I think, maybe, you aren't against authoritarians if they share your views.

who is the authoritarian that i'm serving? because i'm not taking orders from fucking *anyone* here.

advice? intel/weather reports? opinions from the other side?

those i am listening to.

[marshallnoise]

would it surprise you to learn that the US Army is kind of an authoritarian environment?

And that makes you hypersensitive to what you perceive as authoritarian. You seem to still operate in that mindset. I think, maybe, you aren't against authoritarians if they share your views.

[decay]

Not sure how that qualifies you to understand what authoritarians are.

would it surprise you to learn that the US Army is kind of an authoritarian environment?

[naplesE30]

So the only reason to my question thus far is an assumption that they under report leaks? I imagine reporting the quantity of a leak is an educated estimate. That said, in my little industry, if we have a spill over 20gal of a petrolium based product it must be reported within 15min to the national hotline. Then containment must be immediate. After containment, the cleanup can begin. However, the job is not finished until the proper authorities, for us EPA or DEP tests to confirm the spill has been properly cleaned and all waste has been dispossed of accordingly. The quantity really doesnt affect the testing to confirm that all steps have been completed. Wether we should spill 20 or 2000 gal of product it only affect the amount of material and cost of cleanup. The soil or water must still pass the same ppm thresholds.

I try to see both sides of the coin. I just dont see the logic in a blanket opposition. It sort of discounts the opinion to me.

I totally am for preventing leaks. Replacing old pipe seems perfectly logical to me. I am sure it has a lifespan as all structures do. Are their no regulations for replacment of pipe after x number of years?

Above ground piping wouldnt concern me as its fairly straight forward to cleanup. Oil is actually pretty easy to remidiate, as it isnt dissolved into water, at least on the surface. I dont know how it interacts with H2O underground. Maybee sleave has some knowledge of how it is remediated if leaked underground into an aquifer.

Would paying for, and building an R.O. plant for drinking water for the standing rock situation not only provide clean water but also ensure it for them if their ever were a leak? It would only cost a few million which is a small price in the scope of the project. That would seem to be a practical comprimise to me for both parties.

All that said, I clearly am not against pipelines if done correctly with proper instalation done by licensed professionals. However, I would not be thrilled about one running by my backyard. I actually worry more about groundwater contamination from the farms that used to be on the property where my home and the developments around where I live. I dont worry as much about the current farms practices, but what their practices were 20+ yrs ago. Also the fact groundwater here is about 5ft below surface means many chemicals can quickly leach into aquifers.

[marshallnoise]

...

you do remember i was in the army, right? like, enlisted after my r3v join date, served, still here?

Not sure how that qualifies you to understand what authoritarians are.

edit: and fuck, man, i wasn't blaming you for our (mutual) lack of civility- i was expressing a desire to knock that shit off. it IS a challenge to talk across the aisle. that's why most people suck at it, but i'm trying.

Fair enough. Sorry to have induced you. Discourse shouldn't be difficult if you keep emotions out of it.

[decay]

I am not sure you know what authoritarians are.

...

you do remember i was in the army, right? like, enlisted after my r3v join date, served, still here?

edit: and fuck, man, i wasn't blaming you for our (mutual) lack of civility- i was expressing a desire to knock that shit off. it IS a challenge to talk across the aisle. that's why most people suck at it, but i'm trying.

[marshallnoise]

alright, sure. i actually would like the discourse between you and i to become a little more civil (edit: addressing marshall here, apparently i didn't quote)- but you've made that a challenge at times.

let's start with "preventing welfare is extending freedom" being a seriously stupid thing to say. you do understand that enabling the poor to live and not become the homeless is also good for the economy, right? nobody is a producer and contributing if they're sleeping in an alley.

and i am happy with who i am, so i suppose you are right- i should thank authoritarians for creating people like me who are willing to fight back.

If you think he proposed eliminating all welfare, I think you'd be mistaken. He was talking about how welfare enslaves people to their master, Uncle Sam. Moreover, preventing welfare also means that you don't need it because of a vibrant, thriving economy.

I am not sure you know what authoritarians are. If you did, you would realize the left is full of autocrats. But you are free to believe what you wish and be who you are. So enjoy.

EDIT: I like how I "have caused you to be uncivil" as if you had no control over it. Interesting observation.

[decay]

alright, sure. i actually would like the discourse between you and i to become a little more civil (edit: addressing marshall here, apparently i didn't quote)- but you've made that a challenge at times.

let's start with "preventing welfare is extending freedom" being a seriously stupid thing to say. you do understand that enabling the poor to live and not become the homeless is also good for the economy, right? nobody is a producer and contributing and buying things if they're sleeping in an alley.

and i am happy with who i am, so i suppose you are right- i should thank authoritarians for creating people like me who are willing to fight back.

[marshallnoise]

not really, an ad hominem attack is one that uses a personal attack on the poster instead of the subject (barry)

barry goldwater was a huge piece of shit

Why was he a piece of shit?

[BraveUlysses]

Ad Hominem

not really, an ad hominem attack is one that uses a personal attack on the poster instead of the subject (barry)

barry goldwater was a huge piece of shit

[z31maniac]

i love that you chose that asshole as the guy to quote.

Ad Hominem

[marshallnoise]

people like him are the reason people like me exist, fyi. :)

Care to explain? And you should thank him for your existence.

Edit:

Horrible, horrible man.
"The turn will come when we entrust the conduct of our affairs to the men who understand that their first duty as public officials is to divest themselves of the power that they have been given. It will come when Americans, in hundreds of communities throughout the nation, decide to put the man in office who is pledged to enforce the Constitution and restore the Republic. Who will proclaim in a campaign speech: 'I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel the old ones that do violence to the Constitution, or that have failed in their purpose, or that impose on the people an unwarranted financial burden. I will not attempt to discover whether legislation is “needed” before I have first determined whether it is constitutionally permissible. And if I should later be attacked for neglecting my constituents’ “interests,” I shall reply that I was informed their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can.'”

Barry Goldwater, The Conscience of a Conservative, (1960) p. 17.

[decay]

I am glad you like it! :p

people like him are the reason people like me exist, fyi. :)

[marshallnoise]

i love that you chose that asshole as the guy to quote.

I am glad you like it! :p

[decay]

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. - Barry Goldwater

i love that you chose that asshole as the guy to quote.