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    The rate of faithless electors in the EC is so low as to not really matter, and typically they vote for alternative candidates, probably more as a statement than to make any real changes. Additionally, a large number of states have enacted legislation to prevent (or at least strongly discourage) electors from voting for a candidate other than to the one they are pledged in their representative area. To me this shows that the current system of pledged electors is not likely to ever again function as originally intended, and as such will not be able to protect the country from a harmful choice.

    Clearly the system as it stands cannot function as a check on unwise decisions, and should either be allowed to vote freely, dangerous as it allows a very small number of people to wield real power, or more likely eliminated as it cannot function as intended.

    It's worth considering that someone should represent the desires of the actual numerical majority of voters (representatives in the House more typically represent local interests), and why not make that the President, especially as citizens (or is it just the media) seems to be calling for that change (clearly to benefit their interests)? If such changes were enacted we would also want to curtail the ability of the Executive to carry out changes through orders not needing any approval or oversight.

    Comment


      Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
      It's called the tyranny of the majority if we had a 1:1 system. Our founding fathers worried that the majority may sign away their own rights just as they do now with freedom of speech and 2a rights, (as well as claiming a right to murder aka abortion)

      The point of the Electoral College is to preserve “the sense of the people,” while at the same time ensuring that a president is chosen “by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice.”
      https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/th...toral-college/

      Ie, fools voting is no good for anyone. It's why at work for the most part my guys have no say, because when it gets to the nitty gritty, eventually they would only limit their job vs growing with it and expanding our skillsets.
      You said "Tyranny of the Majority" ? Wow... how terrible that We the People get what we actually vote for.

      And if we talk 'Founding Fathers' let's remember they believed only rich, white men that owned land should vote. Surely this is not what you mean by not letting "fools vote"? Ok, then... in this day and age how do we determine who the "fools" among us are that shouldn't vote? In 2020 why shouldn't everyone have an equal counting vote? Dude, times have changed. It's not 1776.
      1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

      Comment


        As you show, you need more history and you ignored the link:

        Madison’s fear – which Alexis de Tocqueville later dubbed “the tyranny of the majority” – was that a faction could grow to encompass more than 50 percent of the population, at which point it could “sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of other citizens.” Madison has a solution for tyranny of the majority: “A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking.”

        Think about parenting, if you had a democracy with parenting, the kids will choose what they want, which rarely is what is wisest because they do not know. The majority of our citizenry do not know either: case in point why socialism values is growing in America.

        Comment


          Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
          As you show, you need more history and you ignored the link:




          Think about parenting, if you had a democracy with parenting, the kids will choose what they want, which rarely is what is wisest because they do not know. The majority of our citizenry do not know either: case in point why socialism values is growing in America.
          The kids are generally more capable than I think you think they are, especially in small groups or individually. Kids also willingly explore new things that adults would probably not try. Also remember that what you feed in to the mind of a child is generally what they output, so just like with children, society can be taught to think for themselves.

          Also, I suspect that the danger of the majority that you fear would actually be somewhat diminished if we had mandatory voting with a penalty for not participating.

          Comment


            You want to see an example, look at the sudden blue majority in the state of VA and the will they wish to impose on the rest of the state due to feelz and the steam rolling of the rest of the state.
            Originally posted by Fusion
            If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
            The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


            The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

            Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
            William Pitt-

            Comment


              ^Especially when the lawmakers are passing unconstitutional laws. As a people, we lose. The state can keep trying for laws over and over and over at a cost to the people. The people ALSO have to spend their own money to fight these laws through the courts, and to try to keep up with the constant push for laws that they fight down. When the state does not have your best interest at heart, but instead soley a political battle to diminish your rights, you will not win with such methods they can utilize.

              Comment


                The thing with VA in particular, there is legal precedent for those rural counties to defect and join WV, and all but starve the urban Ne counties of revenue
                Originally posted by Fusion
                If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                William Pitt-

                Comment


                  Originally posted by roguetoaster View Post

                  The kids are generally more capable than I think you think they are, especially in small groups or individually. Kids also willingly explore new things that adults would probably not try. Also remember that what you feed in to the mind of a child is generally what they output, so just like with children, society can be taught to think for themselves.

                  Also, I suspect that the danger of the majority that you fear would actually be somewhat diminished if we had mandatory voting with a penalty for not participating.
                  Guys, the kids analogy is beyond reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeee, seriously.

                  Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                  Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

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                  Comment


                    Originally posted by phillipj View Post

                    You said "Tyranny of the Majority" ? Wow... how terrible that We the People get what we actually vote for.

                    And if we talk 'Founding Fathers' let's remember they believed only rich, white men that owned land should vote. Surely this is not what you mean by not letting "fools vote"? Ok, then... in this day and age how do we determine who the "fools" among us are that shouldn't vote? In 2020 why shouldn't everyone have an equal counting vote? Dude, times have changed. It's not 1776.

                    Let's have people be able to pass a basic civics and economics test, dude.

                    "Hate speech isn't protected" - Yes it is, even though it hurts peoples feelers. The "fire in the theater" example that is so commonly espoused was nullified FIFTY YEARS AGO by the Supreme Court. That's just one example.





                    Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                    Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

                    www.gutenparts.com
                    One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                      The thing with VA in particular, there is legal precedent for those rural counties to defect and join WV, and all but starve the urban Ne counties of revenue

                      Care to provide a source showing that rural counties in western Virginia add any sizeable revenue to state coffers vs the inhabited areas?
                      Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                      Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

                      www.gutenparts.com
                      One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                      Comment


                        Trump received 120,000 votes in NH as compared to Obama’s 49,000, Bush’s 59,000 and Clinton’s 78,000 as an incumbent. That’s a pretty significant gap. Will the Democrat party unify enough around there eventual candidate to overcome that amount of enthusiasm?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by z31maniac View Post


                          Let's have people be able to pass a basic civics and economics test, dude.
                          Obviously, you know I'd be for that. I mean, hopefully that's what a good grade and high school education should be doing for us, right? Do you think they should mandate passing a decent civics course before being given the privilege to vote? That's an interesting topic at least. I think that's what they require of immigrants attempting to become full citizens. Maybe everyone should have that and pass that at 18 in order to get a voting card.
                          1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by phillipj View Post

                            Obviously, you know I'd be for that. I mean, hopefully that's what a good grade and high school education should be doing for us, right? Do you think they should mandate passing a decent civics course before being given the privilege to vote? That's an interesting topic at least. I think that's what they require of immigrants attempting to become full citizens. Maybe everyone should have that and pass that at 18 in order to get a voting card.
                            I would be 100% for that.

                            But if calling for people to have an ID to vote is racist, I can't imagine how this would be portrayed as bigoted against minority/poor/etc.
                            Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                            Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

                            www.gutenparts.com
                            One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
                              As you show, you need more history and you ignored the link:

                              Madison’s fear – which Alexis de Tocqueville later dubbed “the tyranny of the majority” – was that a faction could grow to encompass more than 50 percent of the population, at which point it could “sacrifice to its ruling passion or interest both the public good and the rights of other citizens.” Madison has a solution for tyranny of the majority: “A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking.”
                              Think about parenting, if you had a democracy with parenting, the kids will choose what they want, which rarely is what is wisest because they do not know. The majority of our citizenry do not know either: case in point why socialism values is growing in America.

                              I didn't ignore the link or reference; I do very well know who deToqueville is. Seriously, do you realize the Hypocrisy of your post "[Raising a beer] Supporting Trump 2020" and then waxing about Alexis de Toqueville's "Tyranny of the Majority" in the next posts? I mean seriously.

                              De Tocqueville specifically cites examples like the quieting, the murder, of antiwar journalists and the intimidation of blacks on election day.

                              He is talking about checking the majority to the extent that the majority's will is IMMORAL and UNJUST.

                              You simply can not stand up for Trump's continual immoral, unethical behavior/actions but then use deToqueville to critique of my belief that majority everyday people deserve ethical and moral rights, like: equal rights voting, or healthcare as a right, access to higher education.


                              smh.
                              1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by naplesE30 View Post
                                Trump received 120,000 votes in NH as compared to Obama’s 49,000, Bush’s 59,000 and Clinton’s 78,000 as an incumbent. That’s a pretty significant gap. Will the Democrat party unify enough around there eventual candidate to overcome that amount of enthusiasm?
                                It looks like turnout was really strong last night, when 100% is in it'll be beyond even 2008. (Population has grown too, though).

                                My opinion is with so many candidates on the D side, and because it's early, a lot of people are just waiting to see how it will shake out. I do think there will be a huge turnout for the general election, a good thing for everybody.
                                1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

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