Let’s talk about Antifa.

[E30 Wagen]

then you haven't been paying attention to what i've been saying, because i've already pointed out that our own CIA action is the reason people are fleeing honduras.

I figured you'd say that. Conspiracy strikes again! :roll:

Got a response to anything else I wrote?

[decay]

decay, what continues to baffle me is why you, or anybody in your camp for that matter, never directs your outrage at the societies these people are fleeing.

then you haven't been paying attention to what i've been saying, because i've already pointed out that our own CIA action is the reason people are fleeing honduras.

[E30 Wagen]

decay, what continues to baffle me is why you, or anybody in your camp for that matter, never directs your outrage at the societies these people are fleeing. Because that is the root problem, isn't it? If their countries had an actual competent government, a culture and a society that was able to fight back against cartels then they wouldn't be risking their children's lives to come here. It's so frustrating to read an article about some guy in Guatemala who owns a business and has a family pack up and leave his country because he was threatened by gang violence. So I ask you again, from your position as an anarchist, what's your solution to that? As it is, many countries rely on the US for aid and we spend millions of our tax dollars sheltering asylum seekers, but then you point to the accidental deaths of children in our custody as proof we're the ones who remain neglectful and evil...

[MrBurgundy]

yeah, clearly you have never had a job that involves taking anyone into custody.

once you do that you are responsible for rendering lifesaving aid, *because you have taken them into custody*.

these deaths weren't happening under obama, so you can take your ignorance of the law and gwb can take his whataboutism and shove them up each others' asses- you're likely both bored with the smell of your own farts at this point.

“Border Patrol agents took every possible step to save the child’s life under the most trying of circumstances,” Meehan said. “As fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, we empathize with the loss of any child.”

More than eight hours later, the child began having seizures at 6:25 a.m., CBP records show. Emergency responders, who arrived soon after, measured her body temperature at 105.7 degrees, and according to a statement from CBP, she “reportedly had not eaten or consumed water for several days.”

If you blame boarder patrol, you're a fucking moron dude. For real.

Did you even read the article, or did you see a title that you liked and posted it here?

Her getting detained by boarder patrol was probably the best thing that happened to her in her final hours. If she had not been detained what would have happened, idiot? she would have had a seizure in the middle of fucking nowhere and died.

THEY TOOK HER TO A HOSPITAL in a fucking helicopter.

For you to stand on this poor childs grave and spout out that this is the comparable to concentration camps really makes you look like a fucking stupid asshole.

You're trivializing one of the most tragic events in human history. You really are such a stupid mother fucker dude.

Honestly.

[decay]

Are you that dense?

You know why kids are fucking dying? Because their stupid ass parents drag them through a DESERT without any FOOD or WATER

Jesus Christ lol :stupid:

yeah, clearly you have never had a job that involves taking anyone into custody.

once you do that you are responsible for rendering lifesaving aid, *because you have taken them into custody*.

these deaths weren't happening under obama, so you can take your ignorance of the law and gwb can take his whataboutism and shove them up each others' asses- you're likely both bored with the smell of your own farts at this point.

[Schnitzer318is]

I disagree that most major media outlets paint Antifa in a positive light. I haven't heard of them being described in anything but a negative one... as is appropriate IMO.

I'm down for a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy but the "deep state" looking to control us is anything but a conspiracy. We morons have elected, and continued to re-elect, people into a position. Basically, we make them into career politicians. What is going on is fully transparent; the people in charge are HEAVILY paid from multiple sources. They are now rich and want to stay that way. Corporations are now allowed to get away with being monopolies because they pay for campaigning, wining, dining, etc. So they continue to pay. End of story. Until there is campaign reform, and lobbying is disallowed... we might as well just all bow to our corporate overlords.

[bmwman91]

been here since 2005 and absolutely do not recall you or anyone objecting to Obama's policies that Trump has continued.

relative moral outrage

In the spirit of fairness, the corporate media did not cover any of this. I, and basically everyone I know, was unaware of any details or numbers. Had Hillary won, there would have been no coverage. Being that I like to play devil's advocate, it seems acutely obvious that the various groups that champion "human rights" owe Donald Trump a huge thank you, because their causes would be out of sight and out of mind to 99% of the public otherwise.

So, I say reserve judgment of the various "resistance" groups until Trump is out of office. If the demand for change persists after that, then you know who actually believes in what they are saying. The rest are just virtue signalling. There have been groups protesting globalism and what they view as inhumane immigration policy for many decades. They get no coverage because they are consistent in their views, which means that they don't say nice things about members of the establishment, teams red and blue. Trump is decidedly not a member of the establishment (or even if he effectively is now, he was not when running, and the establishment does not want another outsider the next time) so generating outrage is OK this time.

[MrBurgundy]

fuck you, because children are dying in there

if you're okay with that, that's a statement on you

i'm not

this is just the latest one

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...199_story.html

Are you that dense?

You know why kids are fucking dying? Because their stupid ass parents drag them through a DESERT without any FOOD or WATER

Jesus Christ lol :stupid:

[gwb72tii]

i, uhm, haven't seen many examples of that.

my counter-argument prediction: when we have a presidency that doesn't throw refugees into concentration camps where children are winding up dead, or describe alt-right groups also willing to use violence as "very good people", such as the proud boys- american antifa won't have to be "eradicated", it will just go away.

i will, at least.

been here since 2005 and absolutely do not recall you or anyone objecting to Obama's policies that Trump has continued.

relative moral outrage

[bmwman91]

[decay]

Chances are that you and I are largely in agreement about the dangers of a powerful centralized power structure and the lunacy of the corporate media that does its bidding.

probably, but my thread on anarchism got locked, so, here we are :P

[bmwman91]

i, uhm, haven't seen many examples of that.

my counter-argument prediction: when we have a presidency that doesn't throw refugees into concentration camps where children are winding up dead, or describe alt-right groups also willing to use violence as "very good people", such as the proud boys- american antifa won't have to be "eradicated", it will just go away.

i will, at least.

The separation of children from their immigrant parents has been going on for decades. The root cause is that regulations prohibit putting minors into detainment with adults, which is for pretty obvious reasons. The detainment centers were not configured as a family shelter. Maybe they should be, I don't know. The Obama administration separated hundreds of thousands of children from their parents in the name of enforcing existing immigration laws. There was no outrage then. It will continue under all future administrations.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/25/parents-deportation_n_5531552.html

"ICE confirmed the authenticity of the two reports, which lay out 72,410 removals of immigrants who said they had one or more U.S.-born children in 2013."
70,000+ separations in one year alone. Parents deported, while their children got tossed into the foster care system. Children are beaten, raped and die in the foster care system all the time. The issue does not appear to be children being treated poorly: the issue seems to be Trump.

The actual quote from Trump to which you refer (emphasis mine), during a conference about the Charlottesville protests:
"What about the alt-left that came charging at, as you say, at the alt-right? Do they have any semblance of guilt? I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists. The press has treated them [the protesters as a whole] absolutely unfairly. You also had some very fine people on both sides.”

It's more of the usual dumb Trump drivel. But, he was clearly not calling the white supremacist groups "very fine people". He specifically excluded neo-nazis and white supremacists from the "very fine people" category. The extreme left and extreme right both want to make it sound otherwise because it furthers their agendas, but anyone reading this for themselves can see what he was saying. Personally, I wish he would take a vow of silence.

If you look back over the last 20 years, you will find that Trump is a bog-standard Republican whose policies are generally in line with things that even Clinton and Obama proposed at one time or another. The media has convinced everyone otherwise because it keeps the money rolling in. The stuff that people are outraged at now probably is stuff that they should be upset at. But the only reason that they are mad is because of Trump, and as you say, if not-Trump is the next president they will likely go away. Given that none of the things being objected to are likely to go away at that point, I'd say that much of the "resistance" stands for exactly nothing. It is simply a cog in the establishment's machine to win 2020.

Here's a slightly old read, but still pertinent. Antifa is merely an element of the official narrative, even if it doesn't think so. Just be aware of what is coming, that's all.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01...a-still-works/

Chances are that you and I are largely in agreement about the dangers of a powerful centralized power structure and the lunacy of the corporate media that does its bidding.

[decay]

fuck you, because children are dying in there

if you're okay with that, that's a statement on you

i'm not

this is just the latest one

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/7-year-old-migrant-girl-taken-into-border-patrol-custody-dies-of-dehydration-exhaustion/2018/12/13/8909e356-ff03-11e8-862a-b6a6f3ce8199_story.html

[mrsleeve]

There you go with that concentration camp bull shit to attempt to conflate a refugee camp with a nazi death camp becuase you dont like and dissagree with the guy calling the shots. its shit like this that does a sever disservice to your movement, and its stated goal and intentions. You lose credibility every time one of you says shit like this.

[decay]

The media paints Antifa in a positive light since it fits the narrative of "resistance".

i, uhm, haven't seen many examples of that.

my counter-argument prediction: when we have a presidency that doesn't throw refugees into concentration camps where children are winding up dead, or describe alt-right groups also willing to use violence as "very good people", such as the proud boys- american antifa won't have to be "eradicated", it will just go away.

i will, at least.