E30 m20 3.1L 276whp NA

[bangn]

Hes pulled the pin, shop has flood damage and the owner of the building told him to dig out the concrete and bolt the hoist in the gravel....

So hes doing a fire sale now

[digger]

Their diff swap always struck me as odd and unnecessary.

Yeah, I didn’t think that 188 diff and e30 bmw axles were weak.

[Northern]

Their diff swap always struck me as odd and unnecessary.

[digger]

That guy does not have alot of good things to say about brintech :S

Yeah gotta love some of the rants. Very disappointing that they are needed though. Never had any dealing with Brintech

[e30davie]

That guy does not have alot of good things to say about brintech :S

[digger]

S54 is about 340bhp DIN. How would any M20 produce that with lousy cam like 286, considering that best heads are restricted to 210-215cfm (which translates to around 325hp) ? You need duration, lots of it to get the required volumetric efficiency.

For 2V v8 there is a rule of thumb that 1 cfm is capable of producing 2.2 hp assuming the combination is correct

so a 6cyl with 210cfm is 346hp. Also stock s54 make about 200rwkw around this part of the world (250rwkw with cams, air box and SS headers) so it’s close enough

you are mistaken if you think you need tons of duration to make peak hp at 7000rpm or so which is all the rpm you need with a 3.1L. You need valve area and the 286@0.1mm has heaps of valve area. At some point I will overlay on some other known cams I measured.
If you want to peak at 8500rpm then you need monster duration

it’s about understanding the rpm range of all the parts and the engine’s needs and aligning those

[hasa]

if I’m not mistaken this is a mainline dyno so this engine is already making in excess of s54 power with a street 286 cam

S54 is about 340bhp DIN. How would any M20 produce that with lousy cam like 286, considering that best heads are restricted to 210-215cfm (which translates to around 325hp) ? You need duration, lots of it to get the required volumetric efficiency.

[digger]

This would mean that there is no point to develop any of the traditional American V8's including LS and Nascar engines (that actually have very high volumetric efficiency)

Of course there are numbers and numbers. I wish someone would build proper M20 ( 3.0 bottom, 210cfm head, rhd rollers ) and put it to engine dyno. I'd love to see when the engine output reach S54 level.

if I’m not mistaken this is a mainline dyno so this engine is already making in excess of s54 power with a street 286 cam

The thing thats kept development down is the cost to increase hp in that engine, given the large amount of engine options available and the ease of just dumping in an m50/52/54 for chump change brings it down to not being economical to continue with the m20 and some would rather put that money into something that has more future power on the table. Especially if they have killed their m20 and are faced with a full rebuild or a low K m52.

The ones that do push the m20 are those who love the engine for all its flaws and challenge themselves to see what they can get from it.

You’re m50/52/54 swap is making like 120 to 140rwkw

A high performance m20 is not cheap but a lot of peoples budget are wasted on parts that don’t make power. So focusing on the right parts will comfortably see north of 170rwkw and potentially significantly so

[bangn]

The thing thats kept development down is the cost to increase hp in that engine, given the large amount of engine options available and the ease of just dumping in an m50/52/54 for chump change brings it down to not being economical to continue with the m20 and some would rather put that money into something that has more future power on the table. Especially if they have killed their m20 and are faced with a full rebuild or a low K m52.

The ones that do push the m20 are those who love the engine for all its flaws and challenge themselves to see what they can get from it.

[hasa]

the fact it's an interference 2 valve engine.

This would mean that there is no point to develop any of the traditional American V8's including LS and Nascar engines (that actually have very high volumetric efficiency)

Of course there are numbers and numbers. I wish someone would build proper M20 ( 3.0 bottom, 210cfm head, rhd rollers ) and put it to engine dyno. I'd love to see when the engine output reach S54 level.

[digger]

Wow, that's awesome, I don't recall seeing anyone get higher numbers. I was a believer of NA engines for a long time but I always felt the one thing keeping M20 NA high horsepower development down was the fact it's an interference 2 valve engine. You could potentially have a lot of money/time go down the drain if the belt breaks at high RPM. Turbocharging is pretty much bolt on and can make great power with a stockish M20. If something happens, you just get another engine.

I know of 3 others that make more power (all in oz btw and porting done by 1 of 2 people). Timing belt breakage is not the issue

[reelizmpro]

Wow, that's awesome, I don't recall seeing anyone get higher numbers. I was a believer of NA engines for a long time but I always felt the one thing keeping M20 NA high horsepower development down was the fact it's an interference 2 valve engine. You could potentially have a lot of money/time go down the drain if the belt breaks at high RPM. Turbocharging is pretty much bolt on and can make great power with a stockish M20. If something happens, you just get another engine.

[Northern]

He mentioned making a video about the falling out between him and RHD in one video, but I didn't see him follow up on it anywhere specifically, but I guess he had some QC issues?

Edit: Just seems to be sprinkled across all the head/rocker/ITB videos

[bangn]

thanks for the share, guy is super chill to watch. Bit scary the fiasco with his port work.

[digger]

Nice to see serious action in M20 scene. Did he rebuild the RHD rockers, what was the reason for that?

Atleast one reason was he changed out the needle rollers as at one point the supplier of them was supplying lesser quality ones with fewer needles 9 instead of 11 iirc. i also swapped out the needles with mine to the 11 needle german ones