200+whp stock manifold/TB m20b25 (no ITB, no stroker)

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  • ForcedFirebird
    R3V OG
    • Feb 2007
    • 8300

    #1

    200+whp stock manifold/TB m20b25 (no ITB, no stroker)

    SCCA EP class compliant. Rules state less than .5" lift, 85mm bore max, 75mm crank, stock valve diameter. This is a 12:1 m20b25 with a ForcedFirebird head, Schrick 288 cam. Dyno'd off-site on a Mustang Dyno. We use a Dynojet for normal operations. Logistics say, it's a long drive from New England to FL....

    Last edited by ForcedFirebird; 05-30-2018, 06:09 PM.
    john@m20guru.com
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  • AWDBOB
    R3V Elite
    • Aug 2013
    • 4380

    #2
    That thing sounds awesome! Have you done much with M30 stuff? I wonder how 3.5L would respond to more compression, nice head work and a matching cam.......
    1989 Hooptie 325iS Build Thread
    1989 Zinnoberrot M3 Build Thread

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    • ForcedFirebird
      R3V OG
      • Feb 2007
      • 8300

      #3
      Originally posted by AWDBOB
      That thing sounds awesome! Have you done much with M30 stuff? I wonder how 3.5L would respond to more compression, nice head work and a matching cam.......

      Just got a Euro Shark 635 that made a deposit today to do a high-strung NA build. It's 10.25:1 stock, we are upping the valve diameter, flowing the head, using a 290 cam and a Weber DOCE-3 manifold, DOCE-style ITB's. Throttle diameter TBD, but plan is to do something similar to this m20, just + displacement, and a lot more car to pull around.
      john@m20guru.com
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      • 2mAn
        SeƱior Mod
        • Aug 2010
        • 20144

        #4
        Q) Whats it got for a bottom end?
        A) 14:1... errr its stock hahah

        This is just proof that M20s want more compression and the stroke is more for the torque side, right?
        Simon
        Current Cars:
        -1966 Lotus Elan
        -1986 German Car
        -2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI

        Make R3V Great Again -2020

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        • AWDBOB
          R3V Elite
          • Aug 2013
          • 4380

          #5
          Originally posted by ForcedFirebird
          Just got a Euro Shark 635 that made a deposit today to do a high-strung NA build. It's 10.25:1 stock, we are upping the valve diameter, flowing the head, using a 290 cam and a Weber DOCE-3 manifold, DOCE-style ITB's. Throttle diameter TBD, but plan is to do something similar to this m20, just + displacement, and a lot more car to pull around.
          That sounds right up my alley! Let me know how that car does- I'm sure it'll run great. Rama just finished up the M30 ITBs he's been working on BTW, I don't know if you saw that or not. Doesn't apply to the shark though if you're carbin' out with some triple 40s or something.
          1989 Hooptie 325iS Build Thread
          1989 Zinnoberrot M3 Build Thread

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          • ForcedFirebird
            R3V OG
            • Feb 2007
            • 8300

            #6
            Actually, I was wrong. EP is 12:1 max, and he even had me CC the chanbers (all 6) to comply in the ruleset. The bottom end was built in Cali, sent back to New England and the bore was ~.001 too tight, they never even got to break-in. It was re-worked by a local to the customer, thrashed to finish and raced last weekend. This was the break in and initial base tuning. Once everything is settled, I have found they always make more the second go-round.

            I was jumping up and down when I got the video and results. Kinda make my 2.8 ITB 217hp motor look like "child's play" when a single throttle (stock bore at that) made ~6whp less on a stingy Mustang Dyno.
            john@m20guru.com
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            • ForcedFirebird
              R3V OG
              • Feb 2007
              • 8300

              #7
              Originally posted by AWDBOB
              That sounds right up my alley! Let me know how that car does- I'm sure it'll run great. Rama just finished up the M30 ITBs he's been working on BTW, I don't know if you saw that or not. Doesn't apply to the shark though if you're carbin' out with some triple 40s or something.

              Rama is a bang up guy! Should have reached out. Either way, Redline/Weber has been making an m30 DOCE pattern m30 manifold for years. Just a matter of dialing in the head flow and throttle diameters.
              john@m20guru.com
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              • ForcedFirebird
                R3V OG
                • Feb 2007
                • 8300

                #8
                Well, it was strong enough to take p2 at the SCCA Majors at Road America, and against some TOUGH competition!!!

                Click image for larger version

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                john@m20guru.com
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                • ForcedFirebird
                  R3V OG
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 8300

                  #9
                  john@m20guru.com
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                  • ForcedFirebird
                    R3V OG
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 8300

                    #10
                    Was asked not to share the dyno graph on this one :(

                    Am allowed to say it made 208whp/189wtq though :p
                    Last edited by ForcedFirebird; 06-18-2018, 08:05 PM.
                    john@m20guru.com
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                    • 2mAn
                      SeƱior Mod
                      • Aug 2010
                      • 20144

                      #11
                      That thing looks pretty legit. Whats the weight without the driver?
                      Simon
                      Current Cars:
                      -1966 Lotus Elan
                      -1986 German Car
                      -2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI

                      Make R3V Great Again -2020

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                      • ForcedFirebird
                        R3V OG
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 8300

                        #12
                        Would have to ask. It's based on what make of car you are running in EP.

                        E-Production (EP)

                        E-Production is the fastest of the production classes and features racing from classic and contemporary production based sports cars. Example cars include the Datsun 240z, Mazda Miata, Mazda RX-7, Honda S2000, Triumph TR6, Caterham 7 and the BMW Z4.
                        According to this:



                        An e30 can be between 2200 and 2310 pending modifications (p.670)

                        For comparison sake, a hard running Spec e30 does ~160whp and has to weigh 2700lb post-race with driver - 18:1 HP:WT, this car is closer to 11:1. :)
                        john@m20guru.com
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                        Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

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                        • digger
                          R3V Elite
                          • Nov 2005
                          • 5932

                          #13
                          Originally posted by 328ijunkie
                          Tuned a modded High comp stock cam 2.5L M20 was running 98 octane

                          here is another high compression m20. quoted from another thread

                          so apparently the old m20 likes a bit of compression.....kind of makes me want to build a dedicated race engine
                          89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                          new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

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                          • ForcedFirebird
                            R3V OG
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 8300

                            #14
                            In car vid!










                            Originally posted by digger
                            here is another high compression m20. quoted from another thread

                            so apparently the old m20 likes a bit of compression.....kind of makes me want to build a dedicated race engine

                            Yeah, that's Dave Markert, saw that one. Sending a PM...
                            john@m20guru.com
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                            Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

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                            • Reichart12
                              R3VLimited
                              • Aug 2012
                              • 2148

                              #15
                              Just a cool looking car. Post like this makes me want to have a second attempt at building a nice m20.

                              Instagram: Reichart12

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