E30 Aerodynamics

[Eric]

Moving shop starting tomorrow, won't have much time to do modeling for a little. Been wanting to run a 190e Evo through it though. Would want to spend time to make each aero bit tho as the 190swere very engineered. I miss my 190 w AMG kit :(

I'm off tomorrow, need some help?


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[pondhopper]

I'be been reading articles in autospeed.com about exactly this subject.
This guy uses simple but scientific methods and affordable instruments for testing different aero mods on his cars. I think the part I like best is that he writes about his successes, failures and so so results.

All his tests can be easily replicated. As soon as my E30 is back on the road, I'm buying a manometer and GoPro and let the testing begin.

Takes a bit of digging thru but well worth perusing imho.

Would also be cool to back up computer sims with real life testing to guage accuracy.

[squidmaster]

If it was over engineered they wouldn't have made it a box with flat headlights and flat square mirrors. It was just a cruiser that some butthurt exec decided at the last minute to try and outpace the m3. At least that's my feeling on the matter haha

Like, if they had started to make a sporty road racer they would have gone the route of S class, ya know? Sportier, more aerodynamic, coupes.

Would love to see a documentary about the making of the 190 if anyone knows one

[2mAn]

One of the most overengineered cars, I still wish I bought a w201 to daily instead of a w204, but its all goood....

[squidmaster]

The taillights alone on those cars are art

[squidmaster]

Moving shop starting tomorrow, won't have much time to do modeling for a little. Been wanting to run a 190e Evo through it though. Would want to spend time to make each aero bit tho as the 190swere very engineered. I miss my 190 w AMG kit :(

[2mAn]

Hey Squid can you throw this image in your modeler

[TobyB]

Look for 'wind tunnel simulators'- those are fun, and if you dig around, you might find
something sorta accurate. It's really neat to see how HARD it is to keep flow attached.
It explains why Kamm gave up in the 60's and settled for a clean detachment instead.

My 6 year old can draw a cleaner wing than I can.

t

[2mAn]

As I understand it, they can come to close to each other (the vortices will interfere with each other and be counter productive).



https://www.v-spoilers.com/

You're correct. The airtabs say they need about 4" of spacing between them, center to center. Also , in regards to the rear window line, I have to double check but it said as long as it's within 10-12" of the rear edge it's fine

Haha I was just burnt out man. I start work at 730am and generally work until 7 or 8pm, every day.

You can see that they do help turning the turbulent wake into a tapered, more laminar flow, but all that I was saying in my original message was that "You'd probably have to extend your wing even higher to make proper use of it."
which, with the testing I did, does seem to be the case.

I was actually agreeing with you but typing with my thumbs makes everything I say sound dumb.

When you are saying to extend the wing higher I figured it would need to be even with the roofline, something that I believe Eric did on his M3.

We need to get Eric in there to do a detailed modeling

[squidmaster]

Haha I was just burnt out man. I start work at 730am and generally work until 7 or 8pm, every day.

You can see that they do help turning the turbulent wake into a tapered, more laminar flow, but all that I was saying in my original message was that "You'd probably have to extend your wing even higher to make proper use of it."
which, with the testing I did, does seem to be the case.

[Car Freak]

Get them in panels instead of looking silly with small pieces

I think this was directed at me. Let me start by saying that Im an idiot and know very little about this, but Im trying to learn. I was also posting it on my phone while I had a few minutes of down time at work, so...

My comments are just to try and get more info out and to help the wealth of info. After doing some more reading and research it seems that the airtabs help to keep the air connected to the car by creating the tumbling effect. This seems like it would help a lip spoiler generate more downforce, by keeping more air connected to the body down the rear glass and onto the spoiler. (again, no idea if Im remotely correct).

Your modeling is good, but that only works for the M3, as the regular E30s have a different angle on the rear glass. Is it hard to make another model with the basic E30 angle as well? Then if its possible to add the M3 rear wing and maybe a crazier M3 type wing, I dont think the Evo M3s ever got the crazy Evo wings that the Cosworth 190s got, is that possible to model as well. Im just thinking out loud here, but I think the combo of airtabs with a big wing would be beneficial

I watched that video that was recommended "kyle drives" and it didnt help me much, but this other video I found seems to be a little more helpful. not with the VGs but aerodynamics in general

Hi,
A friend of mine just added these tabs on his fleet (trucks and vans), but they were in practical panels instead. Not only does it look more integrated, but it also gives the correct spacing each time.
As I understand it, they can come to close to each other (the vortices will interfere with each other and be counter productive).

https://www.v-spoilers.com/

[2mAn]

Are you disagreeing with me by partially agreeing with me and reiterating what I said? Could you maybe clear that up for me I guess I'm confused.

And what do you mean by "then be successfully directed to a proper rear wing to aid in downforce." Who's doing that? Where's that happened? How's that happening? With the airtabs? What are you basing that on? I'm sorry man but you've lost me on what exactly you're talking about. I'm talking about airtabs.

anyway I mocked them up and tossed them on my super basic e30 m3 model that I use for basic testing....... You can see the results for yourself here: http://sssquid.com/v2/airtabs/

I spent all day doing exactly this same thing so this is all I'm going to spend time on now. If someone wants to find out how their aero works, contact me.

I think this was directed at me. Let me start by saying that Im an idiot and know very little about this, but Im trying to learn. I was also posting it on my phone while I had a few minutes of down time at work, so...

My comments are just to try and get more info out and to help the wealth of info. After doing some more reading and research it seems that the airtabs help to keep the air connected to the car by creating the tumbling effect. This seems like it would help a lip spoiler generate more downforce, by keeping more air connected to the body down the rear glass and onto the spoiler. (again, no idea if Im remotely correct).

Your modeling is good, but that only works for the M3, as the regular E30s have a different angle on the rear glass. Is it hard to make another model with the basic E30 angle as well? Then if its possible to add the M3 rear wing and maybe a crazier M3 type wing, I dont think the Evo M3s ever got the crazy Evo wings that the Cosworth 190s got, is that possible to model as well. Im just thinking out loud here, but I think the combo of airtabs with a big wing would be beneficial

I watched that video that was recommended "kyle drives" and it didnt help me much, but this other video I found seems to be a little more helpful. not with the VGs but aerodynamics in general

[Eric]

Eric, come by the shop when it opens in about a month and we can 3d scan your whole car to see how it can be improved.

Great photos. Did you make the aero yourself?

I need to! I want to get the M3 tuned in February/March. I just bought 1/5th of a spec e30 to use in WRL, so the tune money went away last month! Haha!

Front splitter is a flossman replica, not that great and I modified it. I want to mount it differently and possibly skin it to make it stiffer.

Rear wing was given to me by a buddy in Germany. He found it in the basement of his house and gave it to me for my old ring beater. My brother in law cut out the uprights at his shop and I welded up all the bits.

So not exactly off the shelf but not all home brew either.


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[e30_302]

I'm going to the track mid March, I'll put some wool tufts on my rear window and film it.

[e30_302]

Airtabs on the top of the cab. As stated, they help keep the air uniform coming off from a sharp angle in body work vs tumbling.