E30 Aerodynamics

[e30davie]

If nothing else it looks very serious. Had a chance to test it out yet?

[TheDirtyS54Thirty]

installed the 61" APR GT-250 wing finally with custom end plates.

[2mAn]

but I just have the e30, I did have an e90 m3 that I just sold a couple weeks ago though. As for the wing its being bolted into the frame rails that pass through the trunk floor.

Nice that should be pretty damn functional.

I thought you had a C63, never mind. Too many people on those videos

[TheDirtyS54Thirty]

That's funny, I have a swapped E30 and a W204 also. Both your cars are crazier versions of my own

Edit: back on track, are you tying the rear wing to the suspension or the trunk floor?

but I just have the e30, I did have an e90 m3 that I just sold a couple weeks ago though. As for the wing its being bolted into the frame rails that pass through the trunk floor.

pictured are the chassis mounts

[2mAn]

E30 Aerodynamics

That's funny, I have a swapped E30 and a W204 also. Both your cars are crazier versions of my own

Edit: back on track, are you tying the rear wing to the suspension or the trunk floor?

[TheDirtyS54Thirty]

Your cars the one that Matt Farah drove right?

Have you taken it to any track days yet?

yup this is the one and yes Ive tracked it a bunch of times.

[2mAn]

Your cars the one that Matt Farah drove right?

Have you taken it to any track days yet?

[TheDirtyS54Thirty]

diffuser?

no nothing that crazy lol. I have to bolt in the chassis mounts for the wing and cut up trunk for the uprights to pass through.

[2mAn]

I got a couple things brewing, more pics to follow once I finish the rear set up.

diffuser?

[TheDirtyS54Thirty]

I got a couple things brewing, more pics to follow once I finish the rear set up.

[squidmaster]

the 2.3 was the rally series, but couldn't outpace the quattro at all, so they changed direction and released the 2.5 with dtm specifically in mind. at least that's what I've read from those "history of the w201" articles.

Honestly though, probably 95% of all this competition stuff is hearsay. Who knows what goes on behind the closed doors-- what the executives truly wanted to produce and why

[ForcedFirebird]

The Cosworth 190e was built to compete with Audi in Rally, not the e30 in DTM. Rally had similar rules for conglomeration, so a road-going de-tuned Cosworth was built for the masses. The Evo I was intended to compete with BMW, but it didn't debut until 1989.

[squidmaster]

You've got that backwards

The W201 16v hit the scene in '84 and started winning touring car races by '85. The 2.3L E30s at the time couldn't see which way they went...which is why BMW started developing the E30 further into what eventually became the M3. We didn't see an M3 until '87 ... and it would never have existed if it weren't for the 190E 2.3-16

There's a lot of debate about this part, but some argue that BMW copied quite a lot of the W201 design to turn the E30 into a race winner, particularly the raised rear deck height and angle of the rear glass. There are also some similarities in the shape of the bumpers, front valence, side skirts, and profile of the rear spoiler. They used the same basic engine architecture and same Getrag gearbox.

The reason I say there's a "debate" is that Benz fans like to say BMW copied the aero package and drivetrain. BMW fans say any similarities are coincidental, since they're built to the same rule book. Personally, I buy that argument for the engine: a twin-cam 4-banger clearly made more sense than a SOHC inline-six, and BMW already had the M88 head to play with. But I think Benz guys may have a point when it comes to the aero.

In the DTM series, the E30 M3 and 190E 16v (plus their various Evo versions) won about the same number of races. It's true that the M3 is the "winningest touring car is history," but that's because it was run much more widely. Benz only cared about DTM and did not support any international racing. Any time the 190E and M3 went head-to-head, they performed about the same.

But..... the e30 came out in 82.... the same year as the 190e, and it looked quite similar to the previous e21.... Having owned both, parked side by side, there are many differences and the lines don't match the way you say they do. I mean, besides being an 80s car that all shared the same basic shape... The rear glass is completely different. The trunks are completely different. The hoods are different. The front and read valences aren't even the same basic direction. I mean, prove me wrong please because the history of it is fascinating, but do so with a documentary or some articles or something, because I just don't see any of that from the surface-level.

Naturally the cars would be similar in some ways... they were direct competitors released at the same time from the same country from two companies with a long history of releasing vehicles just to compete with the other.

Then the 2.5L cosworth came out in '88, two years after the m3.... And then the 190e didn't have a single dtm champion until 1992.... meanwhile, the e30 M3 already had two championships by then. The 2.3 cosworth was competing with standard 325iS, and even had fewer HP than a standard 325iS.
It's said that the 2.5 cossie was released specifically to compete with the M3.

M3 - 1986
190 2.5 Cossie - 1988
M3 Evo - 1987
190 Evo - 1989

[vitiokas95]

Sides are helpful, but the front is really the best help

Nah, I understand they probably need different spacing than mine, just weighing in from what I saw in the CFD testing

Where would you mount it in front?

[Emre]

It was just a cruiser that some butthurt exec decided at the last minute to try and outpace the m3. At least that's my feeling on the matter haha

You've got that backwards

The W201 16v hit the scene in '84 and started winning touring car races by '85. The 2.3L E30s at the time couldn't see which way they went...which is why BMW started developing the E30 further into what eventually became the M3. We didn't see an M3 until '87 ... and it would never have existed if it weren't for the 190E 2.3-16

There's a lot of debate about this part, but some argue that BMW copied quite a lot of the W201 design to turn the E30 into a race winner, particularly the raised rear deck height and angle of the rear glass. There are also some similarities in the shape of the bumpers, front valence, side skirts, and profile of the rear spoiler. They used the same basic engine architecture and same Getrag gearbox.

The reason I say there's a "debate" is that Benz fans like to say BMW copied the aero package and drivetrain. BMW fans say any similarities are coincidental, since they're built to the same rule book. Personally, I buy that argument for the engine: a twin-cam 4-banger clearly made more sense than a SOHC inline-six, and BMW already had the M88 head to play with. But I think Benz guys may have a point when it comes to the aero.

In the DTM series, the E30 M3 and 190E 16v (plus their various Evo versions) won about the same number of races. It's true that the M3 is the "winningest touring car is history," but that's because it was run much more widely. Benz only cared about DTM and did not support any international racing. Any time the 190E and M3 went head-to-head, they performed about the same.