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PSA: Turner J Stock Springs are Available Again

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    PSA: Turner J Stock Springs are Available Again

    Just ordered a set after waiting and searching about 5 years.

    https://www.turnermotorsport.com/BMW...08-bmw-springs

    I'll confirm once received, but I believe this is real!

    Discussion on S14.net

    https://s14net.vbulletin.net/forum/s...rings-are-back

    Funny, the J stock Bilstein shocks were available for years after the springs went NLA. Now the shocks are unobtainium!
    Last edited by ed94r; 01-09-2020, 02:25 AM.
    1988 E30/S50...now with S52; Track
    1994 Miata R; ES Solo2
    1998 Lexus LX470; Wife (Slee'd anyway)
    2002 BMW 530i; A+ Commuter
    2002 BMW 325iT; Sport/Premium 5-speed
    2011 21' EconoTrailer

    #2
    I have rear shocks that will work for the kit, as the originals can't be serviced to be revalved to Jstock.
    Zach@Zakspeed.us

    Comment


      #3
      Demon Tweaks in the UK has the Group N rear shocks in stock, I just got a set last week. They are about $500 shipped to the US. They might have the fronts as well, I didn't check on those.

      For the rears, just ask them for Bilstein 24-000642.

      The valving is 300/300 for the front, and 200/200 for the rear. If you have a set of front Bilsteins that aren't crimped, you can send them to RE Suspension Inc in NC to be revalved to the 300/300 spec.
      Last edited by Digitalwave; 01-13-2020, 08:59 AM.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Digitalwave View Post
        Demon Tweaks in the UK has the Group N rear shocks in stock, I just got a set last week. They are about $500 shipped to the US. They might have the fronts as well, I didn't check on those.

        For the rears, just ask them for Bilstein 24-000642.

        The valving is 300/300 for the front, and 200/200 for the rear. If you have a set of front Bilsteins that aren't crimped, you can send them to RE Suspension Inc in NC to be revalved to the 300/300 spec.
        Good info to know. I managed to get a set of the un-crimped J stock bilsteins a few years ago, with the inverted rears...so I'm good now with the whole kit but others may benefit from this.

        Thanks
        1988 E30/S50...now with S52; Track
        1994 Miata R; ES Solo2
        1998 Lexus LX470; Wife (Slee'd anyway)
        2002 BMW 530i; A+ Commuter
        2002 BMW 325iT; Sport/Premium 5-speed
        2011 21' EconoTrailer

        Comment


          #5
          What is better about these for our cars VS konis or B8's? Ive been looking for alternative's to them because neither really are ideal from what ive read.
          91' 318is 90' 325is

          Originally posted by Sonny
          Buy the E30s, they ain't gonna last long
          E30 can make you, E30 can break you
          "He who controls the Nova's, controls the Boomers"

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Motheye99 View Post
            What is better about these for our cars VS konis or B8's? Ive been looking for alternative's to them because neither really are ideal from what ive read.
            What exactly are you referring to by "these"? If you mean the J-stock or Group N shocks versus Konis or B8s, it's mainly that both off the shelf Koni and B8's are too soft (underdamped) for the quite stiff J-stock springs. You could always just revalve Konis or B8's to J-stock valving if you wish. Just be careful because brand new E30 B8's are probably crimped and can't be revalved or rebuilt.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Motheye99 View Post
              What is better about these for our cars VS konis or B8's? Ive been looking for alternative's to them because neither really are ideal from what ive read.
              To extend on wave's comment, the J Stock set-up is a system that was devised to work as a system. Not the best, not the worst, but a system to capitalize on a rule set of the time. There are plenty of E30 set up options, the J stock being one option to entertain if you want to retain the stock spring OD. If I were setting up a car without nostalgia concerns, I would look elsewhere for more reasonable options that could deliver same/improved results.

              The J Stock set up is inherently a compromised set up from the start, but likely one of the best choices if you want to go with the stock spring OD, which is where the compromise lies.





              1988 E30/S50...now with S52; Track
              1994 Miata R; ES Solo2
              1998 Lexus LX470; Wife (Slee'd anyway)
              2002 BMW 530i; A+ Commuter
              2002 BMW 325iT; Sport/Premium 5-speed
              2011 21' EconoTrailer

              Comment


                #8
                The J-Stock setup, both the spring rates and the damper valving, was based on the E30 M3 Group N settings. There are 3 main considerations:

                1) The J-stock springs are progressive, not linear like the Group N coilovers were.

                2) The J-stock dampers were "stock length" front strut inserts, which are travel limited (especially if you don't trim the bump stops!), and don't require cutting your strut housings

                3) The J-stock springs were stock diameter, which don't require cutting your strut housings (but severely limit how much camber you can run in the front)

                So yeah, other than nostalgia, there are other methods to achieving a similar setup these days. If you went with a coilover setup, you can run more front camber, run a shorter shock insert for more bump travel, and just run similar spring rates on a linear coilover spring. This will likely require custom valved dampers no matter what you go with, as OTS Koni and Bilstein are probably well underdamped for the spring rates (Group N dry setup started at 680F/1027R and went all the way up to 1369F/1825R!!!).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Ok thanks My car is still mostly a street car so these shock options are probably a bit to extreme for me. GC and Konis should suffice.
                  91' 318is 90' 325is

                  Originally posted by Sonny
                  Buy the E30s, they ain't gonna last long
                  E30 can make you, E30 can break you
                  "He who controls the Nova's, controls the Boomers"

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Digitalwave View Post
                    The J-Stock setup, both the spring rates and the damper valving, was based on the E30 M3 Group N settings. There are 3 main considerations:

                    1) The J-stock springs are progressive, not linear like the Group N coilovers were.

                    2) The J-stock dampers were "stock length" front strut inserts, which are travel limited (especially if you don't trim the bump stops!), and don't require cutting your strut housings

                    3) The J-stock springs were stock diameter, which don't require cutting your strut housings (but severely limit how much camber you can run in the front)

                    So yeah, other than nostalgia, there are other methods to achieving a similar setup these days. If you went with a coilover setup, you can run more front camber, run a shorter shock insert for more bump travel, and just run similar spring rates on a linear coilover spring. This will likely require custom valved dampers no matter what you go with, as OTS Koni and Bilstein are probably well underdamped for the spring rates (Group N dry setup started at 680F/1027R and went all the way up to 1369F/1825R!!!).
                    The other methods you speak of are going to cost a minimum of $5K. Cheap coilovers are too short, and thus create bad roll centers, causing a whole list of issues. No, they aren't height adjustable either. (You can make them lower at the cost of damper stroke, hell you can lower them till the dampers sit on the bumpstops, but you can't raise them any more than the extended height of the damper.) Good luck getting an off the shelf cheap coilover with damping that will handle 640/1080 spring rates as well.

                    J-stock springs, Vorshlag camber plates (because they use custom made spring hats that will withstand the spring rate, unlike the stock hats, and because the stack height is nearly the same as the stock strut mounts) TC- Klein revalved Koni Sports (Tell them the spring rate and they will valve the dampers accordingly) will produce a very, very good combo. Firm, but not harsh, resulting in minimal body roll, and a fantastic handing car.

                    Cheap coilovers are shit. Period. There is a reason real ones cost big $. Will you spend more on a set of the Turner J stock springs and TC-Klein dampers than a set of cheap coilovers? Yep, but you will get far more performance than you will with the cheap coilovers. I've been running the J stock springs and TC Klein combo for about 3 years now. I've autoXed with them, and I have yet to do poorly. It works very, very well.

                    Will
                    '59 Alfa Romeo 101.02 Giulietta Sprint
                    '69 Alfa Romeo 105.51 1750 GTV (R.I.P)
                    '69 Datsun 2000 roadster Vintage race car
                    '88 BMW M3

                    Comment


                      #11
                      What exactly are you arguing with me over? Where did I tell him to buy cheap coilovers? I don't have J-Stock springs, I was trying to help the guy with some knowledge I gleaned recently when researching Group N spring rates.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Please keep us posted. At that price, it's a no brainier. Now to dig out some of my old b8 cores. :)
                        john@m20guru.com
                        Links:
                        Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by ForcedFirebird View Post
                          Please keep us posted. At that price, it's a no brainier. Now to dig out some of my old b8 cores. :)
                          Not sure if you were waiting on me but the springs arrived a few days after I ordered at $349. Now they are 399. Not sure if they were NOS because they arrived...basically in a turner shipping box with packing material that let the springs bang into each other. I've seen fancier packaging for springs is the takeaway, and your results may vary.

                          Moving on: They are as real as I can prove without a rate tester and they are marked as other J stock (pictures) that I had archived.

                          Lastly: They are not on the car yet as I'm debating camber plates. I was thinking CG Spec E30 plates (the plates before the rule change).

                          Anyone: Any opinions on camber plates? I already have the EVO Bilsteins with the inverted rears so those would be the dampers used.
                          1988 E30/S50...now with S52; Track
                          1994 Miata R; ES Solo2
                          1998 Lexus LX470; Wife (Slee'd anyway)
                          2002 BMW 530i; A+ Commuter
                          2002 BMW 325iT; Sport/Premium 5-speed
                          2011 21' EconoTrailer

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I don't think they are NOS as they were out of stock for many years, and there has been grumbling for years on S14.net about them making a new production batch. So I believe anything available from Turner now is brand new production.

                            I had GC Spec E30 plates when I was running stock-diameter springs, and they don't play very well with Bilstein struts. You can't run the top spool for the uniball due to insufficient threads, and until I shimmed the spring perch away from the top plate at least 1/2", I was getting a ton of binding from the spring perch to the head of one of the shock tower bolts. Even with removing the top uniball spool, I still had to use a stover nut with loctite because I didn't get full thread engagement on the top nut.

                            When I moved to coilovers recently I decided to try out Vorshlag plates. When you order from them you specify exactly what strut you are using, and they have a mounting method that works perfectly for any design. For instance, with a Bilstein insert, the uniball spool is a uniquely designed one piece nut and spool that spaces the uniball and has the threads for the strut built into it, so you get full thread engagement without any tricks. I am not sure about their stock spring perch design as I have 2.25" springs now, but they do offer that. Finish isn't as pretty as the GC plates, and they are more expensive, but mine do not have any binding issues and I feel way more comfortable with how they secure the top of the strut versus the GC plates (for Bilsteins. Koni has more threads).

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I have an alternative to the J stock rear inverted Bilsteins.

                              not inverted, 1/2 shorter, same valving if anyone is interested.

                              and

                              another shock inverted about the same length but with monoball bottom eyelet.
                              Zach@Zakspeed.us

                              Comment

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