Can cams be installed incorrectly?

[graphikg]

Yes, just got an update. Apparently the intake cam is not matching the head - meaning, the intake cam is not from an M motor. I made a thread earlier a few months ago asking what the consequences would be if my cams were mismatched and the results I received were not very grave.

http://r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=184886

However, I contacted the shop after much waiting, and they say that the intake cam (the one I replaced used) does not match with the head. So now I need a REAL S50 intake cam. Anyone know of one for sale?

[JGood]

I don't buy it. The m50 intake cam has 9mm of lift, the s50 cam has 10.2mm of lift. They are timed identically, but the duration of the s50 cam is 240 degrees vs 228 for the m50 cam. So if you have an s50 cam, the valve is not being pushed down as far, and for a shorter period of time, then it would with an s50 cam. I don't see how this would cause the car to shut off in a certain RPM range only with the vanos plugged in, and definitely don't see how it would cause the valves to touch the pistons (if they did, they'd smash into the pistons with an s50 cam, so that won't help!)

Verify it yourself, you can see the difference visually. Look at your exhaust cam and your intake cam. They are both 240 degrees of duration on an s50, so if your exhaust cam is an s50 cam and your intake is an m50 cam, you'll be able to visually see the difference. I went through the same thing, I was sent an m50 intake cam and an s50 exhaust cam when I bought a set of "s50 cams".

s50 left, m50 right.

[graphikg]

Great input... What I could have however, is an S52 intake cam and an S50 Exhaust cam. What would happen then? Basically, there is a question about the cams, and the car is shutting off under load with Vanos plugged in. The shop now has my original (broken) intake cam to compare the lift and duration of it as compared to the one currently installed - so we should find out that way at least. Also, I dont remember exactly what the shop said as to how they found out that the balves are barely touching the pistons, but I believe they said it was by a stethescope. ???

[JGood]

s50 and s52 intake cams are the same lift and duration as far as I know, the only difference is the core shape. You would need m52/s52 cam trays to even be able to install them. So that's not your problem.

[graphikg]

Are you sure? Maybe that is my problem. What if I have an s52 intake cam on m50/s50 trays?

[JGood]

Are you sure? Maybe that is my problem. What if I have an s52 intake cam on m50/s50 trays?

It's a clearance problem as far as I know, so they wouldn't even fit.


While looking for a pic to show you, I came across this thread of yours:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=20429557

If that's the cam that's in your engine still, it is an s50 cam. You can tell by the rounded points of the lobes, just as ScotcH said. Also, there is someone in that thread saying they are running an m50 intake with an s50 exhaust with no problems.


It's your timing.

[graphikg]

Update:

I just might have the right cams. It may be that the car just needs to be timed using a dial indicator. The shop will do that as well as take the Vanos apart to check to see if everything is fine in the vanos. They are just doing that as a double check (which probably doesnt mean much because the car has acted the same with 2 different vanos units). I will let you all know what happens to contribute for future knowledge, but I hope it just needs to be timed exactly with the dial indicator for it to be fixed.

[JGood]

Update:

I just might have the right cams. It may be that the car just needs to be timed using a dial indicator. The shop will do that as well as take the Vanos apart to check to see if everything is fine in the vanos. They are just doing that as a double check (which probably doesnt mean much because the car has acted the same with 2 different vanos units). I will let you all know what happens to contribute for future knowledge, but I hope it just needs to be timed exactly with the dial indicator for it to be fixed.

You shouldn't need a dial indicator. Are they using the cam blocks, with the crank set to exactly TDC, with tension on the chain (preferably with the tensioner tool), with the sprockets turned the whole way with the sprocket tool, and making sure the vanos engages on the first possible tooth when pushed into the cam? That's all that is required. Stock cams require stock timing methods, no dial indicator necessary.

Who did the timing the first time? If it was that shop, I'd take it to another. Or just rent the tools and do it yourself. I've done mine a couple times, it's not that hard. But without the right tools, it's impossible.

[graphikg]

New update: the shop still has not figured it out. Same symptoms unless the Vanos connection is disconnected. They checked everything and timed the car several times with a dial inicator and the timing tools. They even were in communication with a bmw only repair shop and wanted to take the car there; the shop could give no additional insight and refuse to accept the car to try to repair it. They said, "We don't want to be involved with it." haha... My car may be the only s5x/m5x that has had these symptoms and who's mystery has not been solved. I have no other ideas but literally change the motor entirely.

[sharksforthecup]

Are you saying when you unplug the vanos solenoid the symptoms go away? If so it's an internal leak with your vanos seals. Ask me how I know...I Had the same problem 3 years ago with my first swap

Oh just realized your local too.

[JGood]

New update: the shop still has not figured it out. Same symptoms unless the Vanos connection is disconnected. They checked everything and timed the car several times with a dial inicator and the timing tools. They even were in communication with a bmw only repair shop and wanted to take the car there; the shop could give no additional insight and refuse to accept the car to try to repair it. They said, "We don't want to be involved with it." haha... My car may be the only s5x/m5x that has had these symptoms and who's mystery has not been solved. I have no other ideas but literally change the motor entirely.

I'd take it to another BMW indy or find someone local who knows these engines to start from scratch on the timing.

[328ijunkie]

^This. Oh and for reference:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1559524

[graphikg]

Sharks, can I speak to you more about this and possibly even have a conversation with you over the phone? Just to let you know, my Vanos is rebuilt, and we have also tried another used good vanos just to make sure and it has still been the same problem. What are the chances that two different Vanos units have the same problem?

[ck_taft325is]

Definitely find a new shop. There should be a few in San Jose region that a few members could speak well of?

Or, as suggested, buckle down and do it yourself. Having never been inside of an M/S/50/52 Luke and I tackled my S50 in a solid 10 hours and a few stressful days of driving it.

[Jason89i]

out of curiosity, did you test the vanos? how far (in mm) is the vanos advancing?

j