24V AWD Swap Knowledge Base

[nando]

why don't you just strap 200lbs of lead to the front bumper. :p

[The Dark Side of Will]

Any volunteers to be the first to build an M70B54 frankenmotor powered 350iX?

[nando]

Funny thing is all the swaps ive seen there look like disasters - that S38 looks like a nightmare. There's been a few clean swaps, but obviously its difficult to do at all.

[stonea]

Yes I found these on E30.de. It's really hard to navigate since I don't really speak German. I just looked for keywords like "325ix" "ix" "M30" and "S38. Also sorry about that last pic, the oil pan pic was apparently of a Euro S50 swap. He was writing about a 325ix and a s38 in the beginning of his thread, but then I guess he switched to a S50 and I didn't pay enough attention to the pictures. Anyway here is a thread of a S38 and M30 swap.

S38:

http://wp1016621.server-he.de/fotost/f01604/f01604.htm

M30:

http://wp1016621.server-he.de/fotost/f01025/f01025.htm

http://wp1016621.server-he.de/fotost/f00948/f00948.htm

In the S38 one it looks like he used a "oil pan adapter" to mate the two. I wonder if you could water jet a M30 bolt pattern flange or something and cut the top off of the pan of your choosing and weld the M30 and the AWD pan together. You would need custom Arms and massage the fire wall (not nearly as bad a Nisse had to though).

[The Dark Side of Will]

Talk about a franken-pan, though... Do *ANY* of the holes line up? I'd like to see more about fabricating the pan.

[nando]

yeah I think that one was up on E30.de?

There was another M30 swap that looked like they made the oil pan out of JB weld, lol. that one looks halfway decent.

[stonea]

I found some interesting photos today. I'll probably end up doing the M54 swap, but its still cool that someone has done it before!







Edit: Deleted oil pan pic because I can't read German :/

[nando]

For the M54 you have to use damper from BMW M52, 2,0 2,5 2,8.
or ATI-damper $

To get to 7500 rpm you use a s50 B3.2 oil pump

or a $250 pump fix
[IMG][/IMG]

the video you posted is a full race build.

Sure, you could bolt on a $250 doohickey and turn it to 7500 but it won't make any power if you leave it otherwise stock. the M54 already chokes out well before the stock N52 redline. you could build a race motor out of any engine with a lot of money.. that's not what I'm talking about. :p

curious what it put down. I bet it cost at least $20k to build though.

[nando]

key note:
BMW states the Valvetronic has allowed the engine to reach a top engine speed of 7k rpm it is controlled by a 64bit computer. Although its efficiency is decrease above 6k upgraded springs is recommended $$

ok. You still can't say what would cause it not to be able to rev higher. springs, sure, but the mechanism itself doesn't move unless you change your pedal position. it's not like the valvetronic mechanism is moving up and down or rotating with RPM. It's basically a fancy throttle system, only it uses the rocker ratio instead of a throttle plate.

Superior bed plate?
please state where BMW states its superior to its predecessor? if its an assumption from the construction well I respect that. But facts are required. a lot of guys here including myself, "pocket change" is riding on facts.

We know it's stiffer because it can already rev significantly higher without exploding. that's a fact.

BMW’s project manager for I-6 Andreas Welter stated when asked "if a n52 turbo possible", quote

"In the case of the magnesium-aluminum block, Welter says, “Right now, the crankcase-stress of the turbocharged engine is above the limit of the aluminum/magnesium crankcase.”

meaning N54 turbo is 340+hp stock is already over the limit of a n52. Correct BMW if they are wrong..

Although BMW refers to both engines as "cousins" their is a reason why BMW had 2 different options. N54 is not just a "its just a boosted N52"

800hp N52? I would not advise that, For a naturally aspirated greatness I do highly recommend it YES :) but should watch out for the aluminum head bolts breaking reports, I hope it was just a bad day at the plant ..

I'm not sure why you are arguing this. Nobody would dispute the N54 makes more sense for boost than an N52. I'm well aware of the differences between the two. I also have zero interest in a turbo motor (if I did, I would have already found an N54 parts car - they are a dime a dozen!).

"If my M20 can tag a 7500rpm redline with used 15 year old S52 rods and a random eta crank, I don't see why a factory built, modern designed engine can't do a little more"

This is an assumption.. but why not? am all for N/A goodness :)

It's not an assumption. I've already done it. But without some changes to the cams, it won't make the power I want at higher RPM. The stock tune is also designed to kill torque after 7krpm, which I've been working on fixing. I already know what needs to be done, but I'm not going to do it on my DD 330i. :p

"There's also a supercharger but it's quite expensive and has some limitations (no intercooler, not enough fuel, limited boost, etc)."

Limited boost? of coarse and I wonder why? top Power was ~285 for $4k..

Am all for new things but first comes trial and error it return facts

it's definitely limited due to fuel, not the strength of the engine. Also, that's 285whp, not at the crank. You could guess what it is at the crank but it's at least 300hp. It's not much boost - 6-7psi. I think I can get close to that with changes to the cams and a different intake manifold. There are N/A cars putting out close to 250whp with bolt ons, so I'm not crazy. honest!

[King Mufasa]

M54 7500RPM with S50B3.2 OIL PUMP M52 damper

[King Mufasa]

For the M54 you have to use damper from BMW M52, 2,0 2,5 2,8.
or ATI-damper $

To get to 7500 rpm you use a s50 B3.2 oil pump

or a $250 pump fix
[IMG][/IMG]

[King Mufasa]

key note:
BMW states the Valvetronic has allowed the engine to reach a top engine speed of 7k rpm it is controlled by a 64bit computer. Although its efficiency is decrease above 6k upgraded springs is recommended $$

Superior bed plate?
please state where BMW states its superior to its predecessor? if its an assumption from the construction well I respect that. But facts are required. a lot of guys here including myself, "pocket change" is riding on facts.

BMW’s project manager for I-6 Andreas Welter stated when asked "if a n52 turbo possible", quote

"In the case of the magnesium-aluminum block, Welter says, “Right now, the crankcase-stress of the turbocharged engine is above the limit of the aluminum/magnesium crankcase.”

meaning N54 turbo is 340+hp stock is already over the limit of a n52. Correct BMW if they are wrong..

Although BMW refers to both engines as "cousins" their is a reason why BMW had 2 different options. N54 is not just a "its just a boosted N52"

800hp N52? I would not advise that, For a naturally aspirated greatness I do highly recommend it YES :) but should watch out for the aluminum head bolts breaking reports, I hope it was just a bad day at the plant ..


"If my M20 can tag a 7500rpm redline with used 15 year old S52 rods and a random eta crank, I don't see why a factory built, modern designed engine can't do a little more"

This is an assumption.. but why not? am all for N/A goodness :)

"There's also a supercharger but it's quite expensive and has some limitations (no intercooler, not enough fuel, limited boost, etc)."

Limited boost? of coarse and I wonder why? top Power was ~285 for $4k..

Am all for new things but first comes trial and error it return facts

[nando]

No, n52 cams wont fit into n54 head. But maybe, the n52 head could fit on an n54 block.

Pretty sure its not the magnesium. I think the n54 has steel cylinder liners.

N52 isnt DI. The N54 is, and i dont know that they are really fuel limited. The guys making more than 500hp typically run e85 or similar. I dont know what the limits are, its not my thing. :p

[The Dark Side of Will]

The reason I chose the M54 for the ix swap (other than the fact I had one) was because it was light. Also with Andrew's harness adapter the swap is really easy. I love the m54 in the Z3 and think it would be even better in the e30, but I'm tempted to save my low milage M54 for a e46 touring and I've also developed a little crush on the M30 in the mean time.

I don't understand why people like the M30 so much. I had one in my '92 E34. It made decent power for the time it was designed/built, but it's pretty low by modern standards. It does make more low end torque than the M20, but coming from Chevy & Caddy V8's, it does not to me make *good* low end torque, or even just good torque.

The port flow is poor, the offset splayed valve chamber design is horrific, the engine as a whole has terrible knock resistance... etc.

It also doesn't actually fit into an E30 engine bay. For the effort involved in an M30 swap, a swapper could install an M60 and have 100 more horsepower with essentially the same weight.

On the plus side...
It's smooth, sounds good and runs well forever. Mileage is meaningless as the engine *never* actually wears out. Mine had 260k miles on it and still had 180 psi of compression in all 6 pots.

An M54 would be a GREAT swap into an iX... drop some of the front drive assembly's pounds off the front tires.

you could do that.. or, you could just buy an N54, which is basically a boosted N52 (no valvetronic though, and smaller valves, less aggressive cam).

I'm not sure there's too many 800hp N54s though. lots in the 400-500 range though.

Doesn't the N52 have the hybrid magnesium/aluminum block? The N54's block is straight aluminum in order to be strong enough to deal with boost.

Do N52 cams fit into an N54 head? ;)

Isn't the max power available from a DI engine still fuel limited?

[nando]

you could do that.. or, you could just buy an N54, which is basically a boosted N52 (no valvetronic though, and smaller valves, less aggressive cam).

I'm not sure there's too many 800hp N54s though. lots in the 400-500 range though.