24V AWD Swap Knowledge Base

[nando]

M50B20, right?
The B25's had the 310Z trans...

no, just a short 3-4 month period when the M50 first came out, they had Getrag 260s and later switched to ZF310s. I'm not talking about the Getrag 250.

[nando]

E46 xi subframe:
I measured on the E34 one and that would be pretty easy to fit, so the E46 xi probably will too! And if not its steel so easy to cut and weld :)

Im a bit mad i didnt think of this before doing all the firewall and trans tunnel work...

it's easy probably but it's also heavy steel. the advantage of what you did is better weight distribution and less weight overall.

[Nisse Järnet]

I paid like $100 for the transmission and around $150 for shipping. it took months to get here, but it was worth it. think about it this way - anything else you do is going to cost just as much and probably won't be as good or as simple.

E36 steering rack won't work, wrong shape. E46 xi steering rack can possibly work with some subframe mods and an unknown combo of tie rods.

Any one looked at swapping the internals from E36 into E30ix?

[Nisse Järnet]

it's easy probably but it's also heavy steel. the advantage of what you did is better weight distribution and less weight overall.

Yeah I try to think of it that way :D

[stonea]

I paid like $100 for the transmission and around $150 for shipping. it took months to get here, but it was worth it. think about it this way - anything else you do is going to cost just as much and probably won't be as good or as simple.

E36 steering rack won't work, wrong shape. E46 xi steering rack can possibly work with some subframe mods and an unknown combo of tie rods.

Well thats not to bad, I could live with that price, and I know the e36 rack won't work, but I remember reading somewhere in this thread that someone suggested putting a e36 steering rack in the "custom" subframe, but no one seemed to have one for measurements/mockup, and I'm just down the road so I could lend him my z3 rack when he's designing the subframe.

Any one looked at swapping the internals from E36 into E30ix?

I suggested that back in my noob days, but Nando said it wouldn't work. I don't know why though, never cracked on open to figure it out.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I was thinking about talking with you about the new crossmember once I'm home for the summer. I also have a z3 steering rack to see if you can make the e36 rack work.

The RWD racks won't work, as the mounting locations are on the back side.
For sump clearance, the AWD applications needs the mount points on the front. This limits swap racks to E30 and E46 AWD (It might be interesting to look at an E53 rack, though).

[nando]

I think they are too narrow as well.

I don't think the E46 rack would be too difficult. I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up using mine, after driving the E90 for a while I realized how painfully slow the E30's steering is. I'm pretty sure I can come up with a combo of u-joints for the steering column, but I'd have to look at the tie rods again. the E30 ix tie rods will fit but they're an inch or so too long.

[The Dark Side of Will]

For my S62 swap, I'm confident I'll have to use multiple u-joints in the steering shaft to route the steering around the left exhaust manifold. If there's room, I'll incorporate a 1.5:1 steering quickener with the stock rack.

With the space available around the steering shaft with an I6 in the bay, it should be cake to package a steering quickener.
I don't think a faster rack is a big deal, but I'll see how to set my crossmember up for the E46 rack as well.

[The Dark Side of Will]

no, just a short 3-4 month period when the M50 first came out, they had Getrag 260s and later switched to ZF310s. I'm not talking about the Getrag 250.

Ahh... ok.
Listing: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref....=on&series=E34

PN is 23111228301
M50 and M20 were built concurrently from 1/89 through 9/90.
There's only a 3.73 diff listed from 1/89 through 8/90, then from 9/90 the only diff is 3.23. I @$$ume that is the break point between the Getrag and ZF, although RealOEM continues to list the Getrag & ZF concurrently from 1/89 through to the end of E34 production in 12/95.

Were there "performance gearing" or "economy gearing" options?

I guessed that when the Getrag was no longer used, RealOEM would give me the "No parts found that match your car" disclaimer, but I have not found that yet.
I also guessed there would be two different differentials listed, but that seems not to be the case either.

What option or differentiator determined whether the car received the Getrag or ZF trans? Solely production date?

[nando]

it's the same internally as the standard getrag 260 we have, same ratios.

I'm pretty sure it's just production date.

[nando]

For my S62 swap, I'm confident I'll have to use multiple u-joints in the steering shaft to route the steering around the left exhaust manifold. If there's room, I'll incorporate a 1.5:1 steering quickener with the stock rack.

With the space available around the steering shaft with an I6 in the bay, it should be cake to package a steering quickener.
I don't think a faster rack is a big deal, but I'll see how to set my crossmember up for the E46 rack as well.

steering quickener works but it also makes the steering much heavier, by the same rate you increase the ratio.

I think an E46 rack is the best option for me. it gives more room for diff clearance too..

[The Dark Side of Will]

I know it's the same internally... I was just looking for usage of the part number for the 24V forward case.

I've driven Fieros with manual steering for years... 50% more effort from the power steering is a non-issue for me.

[stonea]

Does anyone know if the internals of the ix rack is the same as the regular e30? I kind of want to open one up and see if theres anyway to transplant parts from e36 to e30, even if there isn't it would still be fun to do, but I'd rather pick up a e30 rack from a junkyard then shell out money for an ix one on eBay.

Realistically I'll probably go the xi route in the end. It seems a lot simpler once someone figures it all out, and it sounds like nando is almost there.

I think they are too narrow as well.

I don't think the E46 rack would be too difficult. I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up using mine, after driving the E90 for a while I realized how painfully slow the E30's steering is. I'm pretty sure I can come up with a combo of u-joints for the steering column, but I'd have to look at the tie rods again. the E30 ix tie rods will fit but they're an inch or so too long.

Is there any spot where you could cut and weld the tie rods to shorten them? I know you're looking for more of a plug and play solution, but if I'm going to do custom half shafts then I could drop the tie rods off too at the machine shop

If I get lucky and find a 3.0 e53 x5 in a yard I'm thinking about just pulling the whole drive train and I'll also grab the rack too, but there seems to be mostly 4.0 x5s out there....

[nando]

The internals are not the same. The racks aren't even the same length, the AWD rack is longer. Swapping internals isn't going to happen (I think somebody already tried it anyway).

I'll have to look again, but I think you could weld them. I'm not sure I'd trust cut and welded tie rods though. I'd have to find somebody really excellent at welding who's done something like that before. the E30 ix tie rods IIRC do thread into the rack just fine, they're just too long. It might also be possible to cut and re-thread the outter rods.

if you made them work, the remaining issues would be mounting it to the subframe (you'd have to do some cutting/welding) and steering coupling, but that's just a bunch of U-joints basically. I measured the rate of movement and the E46 rack is much, much tighter than the E30, it would be a huge improvement.

another possibility would be custom made tie rods using race parts. there must be guys running kit cars or one off suspensions that make them out of billet steel or aluminum and off the shelf parts..

[The Dark Side of Will]

I'd rather pick up a e30 rack from a junkyard then shell out money for an ix one on eBay.

Then pick one up: www.car-parts.com

I guess I'll have to get an E53 rack to play with as well.

I'm not sure I'd trust cut and welded tie rods though.

They're steel, so welding isn't a big deal... as long as the joint is well engineered and the welder is competent, it'll be fine.

For such a piece, I'd be more concerned about replacement. In a few years when it's worn out, you don't just have to buy a new one, you have to MAKE a new one. Also, the same applies to an accident, curb incident or track shunt that bends one.

Aluminum would be another matter entirely... A welded aluminum part *should* be re-heat treated in its entirety before it's trusted as structurally sound.