New wasted spark coil w/drivers (beta)

[Hoffbrohaus]

Rather than run quad spark in between, diyautotune wanted me to try out this coil they say has built in drivers. Did they add them or are they already there, I don't know. I do know it's an AC Delco D599a.

Here's what they sent me. I'll wire it up this weekend probably.

[AceAndrew777]

Very interested in seeing how this works out for you.

[varg]

GM ignition coil from their V6 models, maybe DIY has characterized them for dwell vs amperage and output. Like GM's LS coils, it'll have internal driver circuitry from the factory. Typically if it has 4 pins for one coil it has an internal driver, this follows that logic with 6 pins for 3 coils.

• primary +
• primary -
• signal -
• signal a +
• signal b +
• signal c +

[moatilliatta]

I've just been using the Bosch 3x2 coil pack lately.

[Hoffbrohaus]

Ok up and running. I ran the spark test in tuner studio first. Taking out 1 wire at a time and attaching to a spare spark plug to make sure each fired from the correct coil. Which they did. So I went out and drove it, ran fine. Nothing really different so I guess my distributor was fine.

Sending my logs and tune to diyauto to see if I need to change anything else to take advantage of the wasted spark. If nothing else this was in prep for me going turbo where the distributor may have struggled.

[e30davie]

looks like a nice setup. what oem car are they off?

Did DIyautotune give you a recommended dwell time?

[Hoffbrohaus]

The D599a is off a bunch of crappy GM cars. I put it in O'rielly's site and it says it's compatible with a host of 2000 to 2009 enclaves, monte Carlos, impalas and more.

I tried to find specs on the coil pack for dwell time with no luck. So when I sent my tune and log to diy I asked about the dwell and duration. I should know more tomorrow.

[Hoffbrohaus]

Don't go running out to buy this yet guys. I started the car this morning and had a check engine light. I then smelled burning electrics. In the on position the MSPNP2 was reading fine in tuner studio and the car ran. So I took out the MS and i could smell it clearly coming from there, so something got fried. Hoping there is an easy fix or DIYAutotune will at least take it back to look at.

[varg]

Bummer. Usually it's either the 5V regulator or an ignition driver when a MS lets out the smoke. Or a capacitor, but that's less likely unless it's really old. If MS still responds it's not the 5V regulator.

[Hoffbrohaus]

Bummer. Usually it's either the 5V regulator or an ignition driver when a MS lets out the smoke. Or a capacitor, but that's less likely unless it's really old. If MS still responds it's not the 5V regulator.

Yea my Mspnp2 is about 1 month old. And since I'm testing this coil with logic driver s built in I would think that has to be it.

One random thing that I don't think could have done anything. I cut off the pulse sensor wire that was hanging on the number 6 plug wire since I don't need it anymore. I couldn't get the ring off the wire. That's not causing an arc between the plug wires or something right?

[ADEN]

Yea my Mspnp2 is about 1 month old. And since I'm testing this coil with logic driver s built in I would think that has to be it.

One random thing that I don't think could have done anything. I cut off the pulse sensor wire that was hanging on the number 6 plug wire since I don't need it anymore. I couldn't get the ring off the wire. That's not causing an arc between the plug wires or something right?

I am running those coils on my m20 along with Speeduino they are good so far i removed the ignitors from the board since the coil pack has internal ignitors only added 2 of TC4424EPA so output amperage raised from Arduino (direct) 100ma to 2a i guess.

I first ran 3.5ms Dwell time but i went down to 1.8ms and still running smooth i kept it at 2ms so the coils don't get hot.

Do you have ignitors in the board? Or running straight from the logic? I believe in your case you are running them straight from the logic output that might damage the logic ignition outputs.

Disconnect the coils and connect your laptop then activate the 3 (1-2-3) ignition outputs to 100% in the hardware test put positive probe of you voltmeter on each output and ground probe to any main board ground point if readings below 4.9V-4.8V then logic will have a problem charging the coils probably replace it.

[Hoffbrohaus]

I am running those coils on my m20 along with Speeduino they are good so far i removed the ignitors from the board since the coil pack has internal ignitors only added 2 of TC4424EPA so output amperage raised from Arduino (direct) 100ma to 2a i guess.

I first ran 3.5ms Dwell time but i went down to 1.8ms and still running smooth i kept it at 2ms so the coils don't get hot.

Do you have ignitors in the board? Or running straight from the logic? I believe in your case you are running them straight from the logic output that might damage the logic ignition outputs.

Disconnect the coils and connect your laptop then activate the 3 (1-2-3) ignition outputs to 100% in the hardware test put positive probe of you voltmeter on each output and ground probe to any main board ground point if readings below 4.9V-4.8V then logic will have a problem charging the coils probably replace it.

Thank you, great insight. I sent my PNP in to DIY for diagnosis/repair for free since I am beta testing for them. I will let them know your input as I do not think the MSPNP2 has built in ignitors and you are correct in saying I'm using logic outputs. The engineer from DIY originally said "I have some samples of a LOGIC driven 6-cylinder wasted spark coil pack that you can just wire up to the PNP ECU directly," So that sounds exactly like what you are saying.

Now are you saying the ignition outputs on the MSPNP2 can get damaged because they can't handle the 3amps coming from the coil pack?

[ADEN]

Thank you, great insight. I sent my PNP in to DIY for diagnosis/repair for free since I am beta testing for them. I will let them know your input as I do not think the MSPNP2 has built in ignitors and you are correct in saying I'm using logic outputs. The engineer from DIY originally said "I have some samples of a LOGIC driven 6-cylinder wasted spark coil pack that you can just wire up to the PNP ECU directly," So that sounds exactly like what you are saying.

Now are you saying the ignition outputs on the MSPNP2 can get damaged because they can't handle the 3amps coming from the coil pack?

In my logic (Arduino) you shouldn't be drawing more than 200ma for all digital and pwm outputs, That's why in Speeduino they using something called logic driven IGBTs (MOSFETs) that draw around 20ma each to drive dump and smart coils.

So in your case with ford coil pack that we use they are not recommended to drive them directly from logic due to them drawing between 60 to 200ms and also to prevent EMI reaching the logic, That's why most board designers use mosfet drivers like TC4424 between logic and ignition output (see picture).

[Hoffbrohaus]

DIYAuto got back to me and said they think it was user error. That somehow the stock coil ground wire shorted the board. I taped that ground wire but I guess not good enough. So there shouldn't be a problem with this setup after all. They repaired my MSPNP and I'm just waiting to get it back.

Their diagnosis:
"Stock coil negative grounded when coil removed, causing Ign output trace to burn. This in turn lead to internal arcing in ECU from the damaged high current ignition trace, shorting out the CEL output."

[Hoffbrohaus]

Ok got my MSPNP2 back fully repaired. Made sure my stock coil ground wire was fully insulated and separated from the power wire. Car is back up and running well. Looks like this coil pack works after all. I'll try to find out from DIYAuto what makes thier version special because it looks like you can buy these anywhere for $90 sans wire harness.