ECU options for turbo'ed M20 motor

[doug.gardiner@gmail.com]

I was looking at option for the M20 turbo build that I have. It started life as a daily driver for me and then I decided to shove a turbo under the hood once I got another E30. It has a precision 6262 turbo using DEKA 630cc injectors and Walbro 255 fuel pump, stock lower end, and setup to do 10lbs boost for now, and I will work my way up to 15 lbs once it is running. The ECU is Megasquirt MS2PNP but it has never worked and DIY auto tune has absolutely the worst customer service I have ever encountered. It turns freely and doesn't bind, so I'm assuming the issue, which only today I discovered, may be that the offset used is different than advertised. I've verified and re-verified everything except the timing since these motor start at 10* advance and are keyed at the crankshaft. Todays work is to disassemble the motor enough to check the timing according to their manuals. It means removing the distributor and fans, radiator etc so I have enough room to catch the markings during start attempts. If it doesn't work I will drop kick this box and get something else. What other options are available? When I google, I get VEMS, some Haltech stuff and that's it. Lots of megasquirt stuff, which I'm thoroughly unimpressed with.

[doug.gardiner@gmail.com]

err I should note it is keyed at camshaft, not crankshaft. I can't type today.

[e30davie]

You seem to be blaming the megasquirt ecu then admitted you didn't verify the timing, the most important thing. some of your comments also don't make much sense which makes me question if you are doing anything correctly and the megasquirt is working fine but user error.....I don't know what you are going on about with the "these engines are camshaft keyd". in order to be successful you need to fully understand what EVERY setting in the ecu does, and verify it yourself. do not copy other peoples settings off the internet as they might not have the same setup as you, and they might not know what they are talking about. The distributor also needs to be setup correctly to make it work properly (as per oem specs).

Get the engine running on locked fixed timing of zero degrees (its in the ignition settings to do this) and then just use the crank pulley to check the timing with a timing light on cylinder 1 when its running and adjust the offset to make sure it shows zero degrees on the crank pulley. the advertised offset on megasquirt website is 87 or so, but mine was about 84 when on my engine. yours might be different again, you need to verify it. But in reality it should start and run fine with either.

I believe Megasquirt is the only ecu option that offers a plug and play option for the m20b25 loom (from the OEM, not aftermarket)

Basically any aftermarket ecu will run your engine but you will either need to make some sort of loom adaptor or make a whole new loom. If going down a modern new ecu (big $), in my opinion that is the trigger for removing the distributor all together, adding a custom made cam sensor and running full sequential injection and ignition. or at the very least get rid of the distributor and run wasted spark ignition on inbuilt ignitor coil packs and semi-sequential but untimed injection (3 groups of 2 injectors) - no need for a cam sensor on this option. many people will dissagree and say "the distributor works fine" and it does, but its old tech, more things to replace and its almost simpler to add some modern coils with built in ignitors and tuck them away somewhere and never worry about them again. There are also a myriad of other options on modern ecus worth looking at, proper boost control, oil pressure monitoring, coolant pressure, wheel speed sensors for traction control. All of these can be logged and you can add in protections (ie, if oil pressure drops the engine turns off etc). So you really need to work out what you want to do and make a loom to suit.

FYI i have a mega squirt 2 ecu, made my own loom from scratch, and am running 6 x LS1 coils with no distributor. Has worked flawlessly for years. Megasquirt is a fantastic ecu, especially for the price. it isnt full featured as many new options, but mine was 200bucks 2nd hand, hard to beat.

[digger]

Any half decent ecu will work but needs to be setup correct. I advise to find a helpful local shop to look over settings and setup if you’re not sure how to proceed. Some places are willing but some will want to stick to what they know to avoid hassles so may take some phoning around

[varg]

I'm probably going to come off as rude here but that's only because I tend to be direct and think you're expecting too much for too little work on your part. You've provided no useful information here for anyone to actually help you, it's like you just came here to vent and ask for a plug-and-play ECU you won't even have to set up and tune. You're putting 600whp of turbo on this car and intend to do that yourself but you throw up your hands and blame the ECU and the sellers so quickly? It sounds like you need to pay a shop to do this for you. You're probably thoroughly unimpressed because you're leaning on other people too much instead of reading into the system and how it works then working through it on your own. It's hard to do this stuff right when you don't understand the fundamentals of what you're doing. For example, throw a timing light on that thing and verify stuff yourself, it's not hard. I did it myself an verified the offset numbers reported by others in my searches. There is no "keyed" timing advance, only a trigger wheel. You control timing through the ECU, it can be -10, +10, +40, whatever you want, the distributor is just a rotating conductor and has nothing to do with the ignition advance, the trigger wheel just tells the ECU where the engine is and you have to tell the ECU where it is in relation to piston 1. Advance is a dependent variable of this. This isn't a smallblock where you twist the distributor to change base timing, it's electronic ignition with a distributor instead of mutiple coils.

I have been getting a lot of megasquirt related questions from people here and on instagram in the past few years, people consistently asking me stuff they could find out with a few minutes of internet searches. I don't tune for money anymore, I spend some of my free time outside of my career to do this stuff myself, it's just a hobby to me now, so the pro bono questions get dismissed when they're really obvious stuff and I've become like the old forum grouch that tells people the answer is out there and to search for it, but this is actually helpful advice if you take it for what it is. If you start at the bottom and work up you understand what is going on and aren't just changing numbers and looking for results then getting frustrated when stuff goes wrong. I'm not telling people they have to be able to understand the circuitry inside the ECU like I do - I fixed them so I needed that knowledge, but there's enough screenshots of base settings and base tables and anecdotes and DIYs on this forum alone to go from a kit to an E30 that runs on megasquirt, you just have to search (on an external search engine). Tuning and building an ECU isn't like welding, you can figure it all out solely from reading, there's no special techniques or muscle memory.

[Hoffbrohaus]

I didn't know what to say to the OP. It looked like a troll to me. You guys said it all best. And I'll just add that I'm one of those that bought an Mspnp2 and thought I could just plug it in, load a base map and go. With help from guys like varg slapping me in the face I started finding the knowledge I needed.

Best advice I can give as a newbie is to take it a step at a time. I wanted to get it running smooth with almost stock setup first. I had a wideband and gm iat. Once that was smooth I thought a variable tps (e36) would be nice. Put that in and tuned. After that I got a little more confident and tried out a wasted spark solution. Tuned that and the car has never run better! Next step are bigger injectors.

By the way when I say I 'tuned it', alI had to do, after getting the fundamentals setup, was to adjust the fuel ve tables. I paid for the full version of tuner studio also to use the analyze live function. I found great support at diyautotune with an employee who has an E30 also.

[e30davie]

The analyze live function is the secret to my reasonable success too (with a reliable high quality wide band O2 sensor), and being able to tune in my local streets by myself. Just drive round and let it adjust stuff, then look at it and make some adjustments myself to smooth it out, then do it all again. Its great for amateurs like me.

[hasa]

Absolutely the first job with aftermarket ECU is to mark TDC clearly with white paint pen on the crank pulley so that the tuner can verify that trigger offset is right. Then comes everything else.

It's a long way to the top, if you wanna rock'n roll.

[doug.gardiner@gmail.com]

The only thing I was really looking for were ECU options other than Megasquirt because that's what comes up in Google when you start searching. Instead I get jackassery. This is why the forum is dying. The first guy sounds like the tech support guy I dealt with and I have half the mind to drive to Atlanta with a ball bat to fuck him up. I along with 4 other people have spent nearly a year trying to troubleshoot that piece of shit Megasquirt. I couldn't get it to load the base tune and then eventually had to build one from scratch. That's after another member loaned me his tune which works and has the same setup as far as my equipment. We've got fuel via new DEKA 630cc injectors and and Walbro 255 because after a few seconds you can smell it. We've got spark because I have new spark plugs in the motor and the coil was swapped into my 89 E30 to verify it runs. I didn't want to check the timing because a) its keyed on the camshaft until the many other cars I have worked on where the distributor is held in place via a bolt and swivels to adjust timing. b) Its a 35 year old car and the bolts, as I suspected, were seized in place such that I had to get a combination of torch and welder to get them out. I have 3 other folks who use megasuirt come out and go over the setup and tell me things, like, I don't have a base tune. Their answer for, all your stuff is there and in place but it just wont run. Btw this car was running before I tore it down for the turbo build. And even now, when cranking it has RPM sync. Even now I have new replacement parts for the CPS. The TPS is also a new M50 unit. So yea, I've done a lot of things and had a lot of help. Just needed the question, what other options are there OTHER than megasquirt.

But really, the only thing I wanted to know was about the 4 major brands of ECUs, which I got from ChatGPT without all the BS. You guys are tools.

[babbleheap]

But really, the only thing I wanted to know was about the 4 major brands of ECUs, which I got from ChatGPT without all the BS. You guys are tools.

At a certain point, if you are having the same experience in multiple places, perhaps you are the problem.

[e30davie]

haha, doug gardiner - if that is your real name. Time to grow up. I gave you loads of options. and specifically outlined that there's nothing special about an m20, any ecu will run it. but none of them are plug and play. I gave you loads of technical data, options and info to assist in your selection.

You are still talking about swapping tunes, not working out what's wrong with settings. You're gonna get nowhere by swapping tunes around. I mean you could have posted snapshots of your tune file, or tooth logs for us to check, but no, you went straight to the abuse.

Forums are dying because people come with no information, and expect all the answers. And those in the know cannot be bothered spoon feeding. Then said people get all butt hurt and call people tools even when they are given the information they seek.

[hasa]

No ECU will cure problems of the owner.

[varg]

But really, the only thing I wanted to know was about the 4 major brands of ECUs, which I got from ChatGPT without all the BS. You guys are tools.

Well bud I don't know what to tell you, I hope you don't use chatGPT to tune your car for you, because you'll blow it up. Pay a shop, your attitude is not cut out for DIY tuning if you give up like that. Megasquirt is cheap and easily capable of doing what you want, you just don't feel like learning. Just the facts from me, an AEM, holley, haltech, link, with well done modded wiring harness, an adapter to use stock harness, or quality custom harness will cost you 2-3x what a megasquirt PNP cost.

[bangn]

This is what i use chat gpt for.. hopefully its helpful.

Once upon a time, there lived a man named Doug Gardiner. Doug was a passionate car enthusiast with a particular obsession for BMWs. He had always dreamed of owning a powerful sports car, and his heart was set on building a turbocharged BMW E30, a classic model known for its timeless design and agile performance.
However, there was one minor problem: Doug had absolutely no clue how to build a turbocharged car. Undeterred by his lack of knowledge, he turned to the vast expanse of the internet for guidance. He stumbled upon an online forum, r3vlimited, filled with seasoned car enthusiasts who shared their wisdom and experiences.

Excitedly, Doug created an account and posted a question on the forum, asking for advice on how to build a turbocharged BMW E30. However, instead of approaching the community with respect and a willingness to learn, Doug was impatient and dismissive.

"Hey, I want to build a turbocharged E30," he wrote, "but I don't have time for lengthy explanations. Just tell me what parts to buy and how to install them. I don't want to waste my time."

Unsurprisingly, his rude and demanding tone did not win him any favor among the forum's members. They were passionate about their craft and valued the art of automotive engineering. Instead of offering the quick answers Doug desired, they responded with advice to learn the fundamentals, understand the mechanics, and develop a comprehensive plan.

Frustrated by the lack of immediate gratification, Doug became even ruder in his replies. He disregarded their advice, claiming that they were only trying to make the process more complicated than it needed to be. Ignoring their wisdom, he stubbornly purchased random parts based on his incomplete understanding.

As Doug attempted to install the turbo and related components, he quickly realized the complexity of the task at hand. Confused and overwhelmed, he found himself drowning in a sea of disassembled car parts, with no idea how to put them together. Frustration turned to anger as he blamed everyone but himself for his predicament.

One evening, after another failed attempt to make progress on his project, Doug sat down on his garage floor, exhausted and defeated. As he gazed at the disassembled engine, he noticed a nearby pottery wheel he had used long ago for a forgotten hobby.

In that moment, something within Doug shifted. He realized that perhaps his passion for cars had become tainted by his impatience and arrogance. He yearned for a fresh start, a new pursuit where he could grow and learn without tarnishing his relationships or his own sense of self.

With a newfound sense of purpose, Doug decided to sell his unfinished BMW project. He used the proceeds to enroll in a local pottery class. The tactile nature of the clay, the meditative rhythm of the wheel, and the creativity it inspired brought him a sense of peace he hadn't felt in a long time.

Over the following months, Doug honed his pottery skills, pouring his heart into each handcrafted piece. His creations began to attract attention, and soon enough, he was approached by a local gallery owner who offered to showcase his work. Doug's passion for pottery grew as he embraced the art form, finding joy and fulfillment in the process.

Years later, Doug's pottery became renowned in the art world, and he established his own successful studio. He realized that his journey from the world of turbocharged engines to the delicate art of pottery was not a failure but a transformative experience. It taught him the importance of patience, humility, and the beauty of embracing the unknown.

As for the unfinished BMW E30, it found a new home with a dedicated enthusiast who respected the craftsmanship and understood the art

[zwill23]

Wow, what a read. This is the kind of dialog the makes a forum feel alive, and now I'm over here reminiscing about TRINA KILL DA HOUSE