ZDDP Oil Additives

[nando]

I don't think anyone would suggest a 5w30 modern synthetic in an M20. the ZDDP levels of those oils are typically less than 1000ppm.

[slammin.e28]

I don't think anyone would suggest a 5w30 modern synthetic in an M20. the ZDDP levels of those oils are typically less than 1000ppm.

'Zactly.

Got the car with unknown mileage, but a shit ton of new parts in the suspension, steering, brakes, etc. Great interior. I've got a good, well taken care of replacement M30 for it.

But that is what running an oil with inadequate zinc in it will do.

[3vilE30]

Oh no! another zddp/oil thread, food for thought how does oil from when these engines were made compare to modern oils?

IMO just use what you think is right for your needs. Of course you can use super high zinc oils such as amsoil, redline etc...Most of our m20's are well within 200k+ range at that point using lets say amsoil/redline 20w-50 over castrol 20w-50 is just a fringe benefit. A total contradiction to what I previously stated I do tend to go for oils that are known to be good performers, but having cost as a filter to find what fits my needs.

Personally I use 15w-40 diesel valveoline premium blue, I don't recommend using it during summer (100+ degree weather) unless your summers aren't as harsh as sacramento's dry heat. Good cheap oil like most diesel oils
Delo, rotella, delvac etc... Good winter oil

I have tried valveoline vr1, I'll vouch for how smooth it runs especially in the heat. Then again it's a "racing oil" it did turn fairly dark within 1,500 miles.
Good for hot summers

Castrol is a great "neutral" oil, baseline for most 20w-50's does turn fairly dark quickly, but will gladly take 3k

I have been thinking of switching over to synthetics and their additive package, but our motors have seen conventional oils most of their lives and was factory tailor made to a 20w-50 conventional oil. I'd run synthetics if I did have a rebuilt motor for the added flow benefits.

Basically saying 20-50, 15-50, 15-40 and TWS (if you want to) oil today are good enough for m20's regardless of zddp content.
Just don't throw in some Walmart oil, anything by a reputable company works.

[ForcedFirebird]

This is the cam in my GF's 535is.


Oil change sticker had "5w30 SYN" scrawled on it in black sharpie.

Car is still running fine. I put VR1 in it with BG MOA. Adjusted the valves and within a week that lobe wore more and you can here it tick tick tick over all the other light engine noises. I get some of this...

...each time I change the oil though.

VR1 or go home on M20/30s.

Once the lobe and rocker start to eat each-other, changing oil really isn't going to stop it. It was probably always serviced at a minute-lube place that uses recycled/cheap mystery oil.

[slammin.e28]

Once the lobe and rocker start to eat each-other, changing oil really isn't going to stop it. It was probably always serviced at a minute-lube place that uses recycled/cheap mystery oil.

Yup. It's thru the hardening. I'm not worried though. This engine has over 300k at least. Odometer broke years ago at 154k and the guy was a salesman and drove the car all over the east coast.

[ForcedFirebird]

Oh no! another zddp/oil thread, food for thought how does oil from when these engines were made compare to modern oils?

IMO just use what you think is right for your needs. Of course you can use super high zinc oils such as amsoil, redline etc...Most of our m20's are well within 200k+ range at that point using lets say amsoil/redline 20w-50 over castrol 20w-50 is just a fringe benefit. A total contradiction to what I previously stated I do tend to go for oils that are known to be good performers, but having cost as a filter to find what fits my needs.

Personally I use 15w-40 diesel valveoline premium blue, I don't recommend using it during summer (100+ degree weather) unless your summers aren't as harsh as sacramento's dry heat. Good cheap oil like most diesel oils
Delo, rotella, delvac etc... Good winter oil

I have tried valveoline vr1, I'll vouch for how smooth it runs especially in the heat. Then again it's a "racing oil" it did turn fairly dark within 1,500 miles.
Good for hot summers

Castrol is a great "neutral" oil, baseline for most 20w-50's does turn fairly dark quickly, but will gladly take 3k

I have been thinking of switching over to synthetics and their additive package, but our motors have seen conventional oils most of their lives and was factory tailor made to a 20w-50 conventional oil. I'd run synthetics if I did have a rebuilt motor for the added flow benefits.

Basically saying 20-50, 15-50, 15-40 and TWS (if you want to) oil today are good enough for m20's regardless of zddp content.
Just don't throw in some Walmart oil, anything by a reputable company works.

Did you read this whole thread? Oils have changed quite a bit due to emissions regulations. Oils were very different when our cars were made from they are today. Flat tappet/solid rocker arms are obsolete - today's cars don't need much ZDDP, and the oils don't contain very much of it.

[estoguy]

Back in April I switched to the Castrol Edge 5w50. The advertise it towards "classic car engines". I called them up to find out about the zinc content. I was told 1500 PPM.

Been running it since then with no problems.

[ForcedFirebird]

Back in April I switched to the Castrol Edge 5w50. The advertise it towards "classic car engines". I called them up to find out about the zinc content. I was told 1500 PPM.

Been running it since then with no problems.

LOL! Analysissays far less....shows how much they know when you call. Still adequate, but I would never believe a phone call - they WANT you to buy their product.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2365766

[3vilE30]

Did you read this whole thread? Oils have changed quite a bit due to emissions regulations. Oils were very different when our cars were made from they are today. Flat tappet/solid rocker arms are obsolete - today's cars don't need much ZDDP, and the oils don't contain very much of it.

I've read enough of this thread and on others in different forums. Yes I do know oils have changed over the years and our zddp levels reduced to meet emissions standards since apparently zddp poisons cats. Many people switched over to diesel oils in order to stay within the required zddp levels, but then again we got hammered with the new CI-4 or CJ-4 rating? I don' t recall which one was newer rating with reduced additive packages. Most 200k m20's are way out of their factory tolerances to make any good use of high zddp. On the flip side yes, a refreshed m20 would greatly benefit from a good amount of zddp. My argument is for an old m20 anything with the proper weight and by a reputable manufacture is usable.

[estoguy]

LOL! Analysissays far less....shows how much they know when you call. Still adequate, but I would never believe a phone call - they WANT you to buy their product.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2365766

Thanks for that. :) I've found that the car seems pretty happy with it, and I feel better running on a synthetic as opposed to dino, especially for the coming winter. The Castrol GTX I was using wasn't any better on the zinc.

I was also considering the Rotella T6 5w40 as well. But I've been really lucky and been able to get the Castol 5w50 on sale. Right now I have three 5L jugs waiting to be used... got around $30 plus tax at Crappy Tire.

[ForcedFirebird]

I don't think anyone would suggest a 5w30 modern synthetic in an M20. the ZDDP levels of those oils are typically less than 1000ppm.

I've read enough of this thread and on others in different forums. Yes I do know oils have changed over the years and our zddp levels reduced to meet emissions standards since apparently zddp poisons cats. Many people switched over to diesel oils in order to stay within the required zddp levels, but then again we got hammered with the new CI-4 or CJ-4 rating? I don' t recall which one was newer rating with reduced additive packages. Most 200k m20's are way out of their factory tolerances to make any good use of high zddp. On the flip side yes, a refreshed m20 would greatly benefit from a good amount of zddp. My argument is for an old m20 anything with the proper weight and by a reputable manufacture is usable.

OK. Guess you know what you are talking about in all your years of wisdom? You are driving your first car, right?

[TobyB]

Yummmm, sliding friction!

After replacing the cam, rockers and all 4 (almost new) pistons in the race car,
I started paying a lot more attention to zddp and what my cam grinder said,
and a lot less to marketing and
what I read on the internet.

t

[TobyB]

Re-read the link you posted. The 0-40 has LESS zddp and zinc than 15-50 (1000/1100 vs 1200/1300).

Whups, I thought faster than my fingers type- I meant to say, the 0-40 has a bit more than
most of the other Mobil synthetics, not than the 15-50.

And yes, you can break your M20 in on anything you want, sure. It will probably
work out ok.

But sometimes it doesn't.

Seems like that happens more and more these days.

Because the oil you used 15 years ago isn't the same as what you get now.

A bottle of additive is something like $15 bucks.

Why NOT???

meh.

t

[digger]

Whups, I thought faster than my fingers type- I meant to say, the 0-40 has a bit more than
most of the other Mobil synthetics, not than the 15-50.

And yes, you can break your M20 in on anything you want, sure. It will probably
work out ok.

But sometimes it doesn't.

Seems like that happens more and more these days.

Because the oil you used 15 years ago isn't the same as what you get now.

A bottle of additive is something like $15 bucks.

Why NOT???

meh.

t

i would buy breakin oil over an additive. the breakin oil hopefully has everything designed to work together. slapping a bottle of ZDDP in a "random oil" in my opinion is not going to work as well albeit better than nothing

[nando]

Or, just use M1 15w50, cause it works well without another $15 in additives :p