Newly rebuilt M20 AFM - $70 (Standard MF20040) NOT a forsale thread

[Gregs///M]

Before we go any further, I do help out the community for free. Please see the thread titled "Offering free (yes free) garage, tools and help at my place in North York/Toronto" on maxbimmer. I also provide aftermarket parts, and I attempt to beat any publicly advertised price anywhere. Lets not forget I have also provided members here euro engines for a price that was far far lower then any competitor. I also run a website specifically to provide other enthusiasts free information. I have also been here since 2008. Do not talk to me about helping out the community.

I can see your argumentation structure is limited. For some unfounded reason you continue to parade your ability to use and understand oscilloscopes. Please see beyond the oscilloscope and address the real concerns. The problem is not your ABILITY to use an oscilloscope or to copy the reference points of another unit. I am not sure how I can simplify this any more for you, I feel as though I am spoon feeding now:

1. Any rebuild facility will have an oscilloscope.
2. An oscilloscope is not required if done at home, because it is a validating device, and nothing more.
3. It should be a cheaper service
4. It can be rebuilt better
5. Bending the arm up or down will make it travel a different distance because the surface is in an oval shape
6. Rebuilt Bosch unit - 0 986 280 003 New Bosch unit - 0 280 202 082
7. FI corp is a company that started in the late 70's in a guys garage and now employees 30 employees, it hardly has the scope or resources to play with the big guys. Especially Bosch.
8. Your research and reference points are based off a unit that has also had its arm bent, therefore your copying not researching. You do not have a new Bosch unit to reference, thus making you use hersay from FI corp.
9. You are a technician not an engineer. You lack the scope, and education to properly rebuild the unit. Lets not forget that I am NOT saying that you are not competent in what you advertise. You are. 'Properly' does not refer to following what you advertise rather as to the extent of not having the connections to gain factory specs, parts, nor equipment that Bosch would have. There is a possibility that a large company would have enough presence to strike a deal to use Bosch' proprietary information and be able to afford equipment and be able to reman a new board. Hence this thread and the desire to see how other units are rebuild.

Guess what? I am neither a technician nor an engineer (albeit I did take electrical engineering classes in secondary school :rofl:) . Do you see me rebuilding AFM's? No. Do you see me challenging your knowledge in using an oscilloscope? No. Do you see me questioning if you are able to preform this refurb? No. Did I ever say your customers arent happy? No. Did I say I can appreciate that people see value in your service? Yes.

Get your shit straight man, I am not and NEVER was questioning your ability to preform a bending of the arm and a verification. You are heavily confused as to what I am challenging you on. I am not sure if that is just you ignoring what I am saying, or just not understanding what I am saying.

For all we know BWD buys up genuine Bosch rebuilt units in bulk and resells them. So many possibilities. Could also be a unit that is rusted, bent, water damaged, or has a Chinese board.

No one is calling your service bad. There is just a desire to find out if other companies do it better and for cheaper. At the end of the day you aren't going to buy a Bosch unit to reference nor will you test your competition in fear that they may be rebuilding it better and offering their units for cheaper. Thus this conversation is moot.

I am, as much as you, curious to the quality of the AFM rebuild listed in your OP. Its the reason I've participated into this thread. I could have just stayed out of it but I'm open to explain my methods and techniques. That would be shady of me to keep my mouth shut and not explain how I rebuild AFM's. But I clearly display my techniques and tools.

And though I am not an engineer, I do have over 10+ years professional experience and 4+ years education in electronics technology. I also work full time in a Govn't National Laboratory Electrical Engineering division. So I assure you, that I beyond the scope and skills necessary to rebuild AFM's and much more. To me they are actually very simple, elementary devices.

Don't get me wrong I know jack shit about electrical engineering.

Why are you even questioning me then?


This topic is pretty much beat to death. I think for the sake of us three, let's just refrain from commenting about each other. Firebird, Noid, Gregs///M should discontinue chat with each other. Any other members are more than welcome to chime in with your comments.

[rwh11385]

Gregs///M is right on with you not being able to see as much with a DMM as you would the oscilloscope. Not that it would be a high hurdle to climb, but doing it the right way would include one. He's been more than open about his methods and tech, as to inform everyone what he does and could do themselves - although a good number of people would still prefer someone else to dot the job for them. (Although doing it yourself the right way > just doing it yourself how you think is fine but not really)

[Gregs///M]

Being pretty much a live and let live kinda guy I may regret jumping in to this.

I do not have the technical expertise you have so have neither the ability nor a reason to question the merits of your position. However, I do have some observations which have stood out in my mind even before this thread came along and since the door has been flung wide open....

1. I notice that every time there's a post relating to anything electrical, you seem to jump in with an ad for your services. While Im a fan of self promotion I think there is a time and place for it (as well as rules) and that it gets old.

2. is that I see a pattern of you knocking everyone either because they don't know what they are doing, do not live up to your standards etc etc. Each to his own but it has always been my belief that speaking well of what you do and why it makes sense and offers good value is a far more effective way to promote your services rather than putting down the competition.

Again, I am not here to get in to a technical debate (nor any debate) but to say that while you may be the most competent repair car around, you could work on your marketing and diplomacy skills a bit and maybe have better results.

This is just my opinion and others may or may not share it..but you asked...we now return control of your TV to you

Jeff appreciate your input, even if somewhat negative.

1. I never just jump into someone thread and present the final solution as "my services" I always provide technical troubleshooting advice first, and if all else fails, send me their failed product. Which I can fix at a reasonable and affordable price. That's quite nice of me BTW.

2. I admit that I sometimes get frustrated with the lack of research of members before they post help questions in the forum. It become frustrating that I often answer the same basic troubleshoot tips that can be easily found by searching first. I'm sure members Luke, and Jlevie know what I'm talking about.

3. I might not be the nicest guy on the forum but I provide advanced and intimate troubleshooting knowledge about electronics and other mechanics.

[ForcedFirebird]

I don't start threads to help people (sometimes I do) but I comment on QUESTIONS people asking in various sections such as car audio, general technical, M20, etc. You can search the thousands of threads from bimmerforums (member since 2006.)

I asked specifically for MEASURED values. I own an E30 and E46 M3. I've also owned an E28, and E34. I've professionally worked on several hundreds of BMW's across all chassis'.

Still don't get why you couldn't go out to your own e30 and get CTS values. Just like I don't know why you can't go out to your e30 and plug in a 153 and see what I am talking about with the reference values. Same harness, same car, different ECU and you voltages change on reference.

[ForcedFirebird]

Jeff appreciate your input, even if somewhat negative.

1. I never just jump into someone thread and present the final solution as "my services" I always provide technical troubleshooting advice first, and if all else fails, send me their failed product. Which I can fix at a reasonable and affordable price. That's quite nice of me BTW.

2. I admit that I sometimes get frustrated with the lack of research of members before they post help questions in the forum. It become frustrating that I often answer the same basic troubleshoot tips that can be easily found by searching first. I'm sure members Luke, and Jlevie know what I'm talking about.

3. I might not be the nicest guy on the forum but I provide advanced and intimate troubleshooting knowledge about electronics and other mechanics.

Repeating info is what kills the "old school" way of checking the internet.

If you do a search on m42 with a Getrag 260 on the internet, tell me what drive-shaft to use. If you can come up with the correct answer, I will personally post it in my signature.

[noid]

I am, as much as you, curious to the quality of the AFM rebuild listed in your OP. Its the reason I've participated into this thread. I could have just stayed out of it but I'm open to explain my methods and techniques. That would be shady of me to keep my mouth shut and not explain how I rebuild AFM's. But I clearly display my techniques and tools.

And though I am not an engineer, I do have over 10+ years professional experience and 4+ years education in electronics technology. I also work full time in a Govn't National Laboratory Electrical Engineering division. So I assure you, that I beyond the scope and skills necessary to rebuild AFM's and much more. To me they are actually very simple, elementary devices.





Why are you even questioning me then?


This topic is pretty much beat to death. I think for the sake of us three, let's just refrain from commenting about each other. Firebird, Noid, Gregs///M should discontinue chat with each other. Any other members are more than welcome to chime in with your comments.

The conversation was based on methodology not technicality. I will accept your request, only because I see you are not addressing my concerns.

Please follow jeffnhiscars advice; there is no need to proclaim yourself more intelligent then others, especially when the topic at hand is not in relation to electrical technicality.

[Gregs///M]

Still don't get why you couldn't go out to your own e30 and get CTS values. Just like I don't know why you can't go out to your e30 and plug in a 153 and see what I am talking about with the reference values. Same harness, same car, different ECU and you voltages change on reference.

To confirm my own values. Simple. I needed to verify my values.

Repeating info is what kills the "old school" way of checking the internet.

If you do a search on m42 with a Getrag 260 on the internet, tell me what drive-shaft to use. If you can come up with the correct answer, I will personally post it in my signature.

Huh? Your first sentence makes no sense. Your second sentence doesn't even have a question mark. Why get into something that has nothing to do with the topic? I'm not going to entertain your question.

[ForcedFirebird]

You said earlier in this thread to NOT trust internet. Looking at your started threads you offered to give $5 for resistance on a cts. moving on you then stated that you help with mechanical and elect issues on e30, as well as stating that I post wrong info and member should disregard my into but if you got off your high horse and researched my username as I did yours you would see.

Some of us do type on phones and have fat fingers and left out punctuation. So what.

I asked a question about e30 mechanics that can only be answered by experience.

[jeffnhiscars]

Jeff appreciate your input, even if somewhat negative.

You asked the question. Dont shoot the messenger.

[noid]

I have a $20 off digital coupon for advanced auto parts if anyone is thinking of trying one of these units out. That would make the total $50 bucks.

[IAmGary]

So I ordered one of these, but I don't think I'm going to install it:

- item was not packed very well, there was a slice on one side of the inner box
- item was dusty when it arrived
- paint job is mediocre, who knows what the electronics are like
- made in mexico sticker (but actual part is BOSCH made in germany)

and the biggest problem that perhaps should have been obvious from the picture:

- no bolts for mounting the AFM to the air box or air filter (see photo)
- emailed the supplier, they suggest returning it

If I install this I'll update this thread with the results.

[noid]

So I ordered one of these, but I don't think I'm going to install it:

- item was not packed very well, there was a slice on one side of the inner box
- item was dusty when it arrived
- paint job is mediocre, who knows what the electronics are like
- made in mexico sticker (but actual part is BOSCH made in germany)

and the biggest problem that perhaps should have been obvious from the picture:

- no bolts for mounting the AFM to the air box or air filter (see photo)
- emailed the supplier, they suggest returning it

If I install this I'll update this thread with the results.

Would be cool to see the internals. The cap it relatively easy to pop off (slice away the silicone).

Dusty, poor packaging and reman sticker from mexico aren't really problems.

After finding that my AFM intake lip was bent (I ended up picking a used AFM up locally), I ended up doing the arm adjustment on my old AFM unit just to see how easy it is. I was literally done in less then 5 min :rofl:

Another concern that arose after seeing how this procedure is done, is that after bending the arm there really is no way to confirm that the two little pin that contact the resistor material are pressing on the resistor material at the same pressure as before. Generally speaking its no big deal, the long term issue is that if its pressing harder then before, it will wear away the fresh material more quickly then it did the original tracks. If its pressing to lighly then after the material wears away then the contacts may no longer touch the tracks. I guess this whole point may be moot if the resistor material is thick enough to where if the arm is pressing against the material more then originally it will just wear away until it is the correct pressure.

[dogsbark26]

Would be cool to see the internals. The cap it relatively easy to pop off (slice away the silicone).

Dusty, poor packaging and reman sticker from mexico aren't really problems.

I completely agree. Are the working parts actually replaced with NEW?

Another concern that arose after seeing how this procedure is done, is that after bending the arm there really is no way to confirm that the two little pin that contact the resistor material are pressing on the resistor material at the same pressure as before. Generally speaking its no big deal, the long term issue is that if its pressing harder then before, it will wear away the fresh material more quickly then it did the original tracks. If its pressing to lighly then after the material wears away then the contacts may no longer touch the tracks. I guess this whole point may be moot if the resistor material is thick enough to where if the arm is pressing against the material more then originally it will just wear away until it is the correct pressure.

THIS seems to me to be the main concern with the whole bending of the arm school of thought (although, apparently, Gregs///M has had units serviced in this manner that have been in operation for quite some time without failure).

[noid]

Any updates?

[IAmGary]

Update: I was going to ship it back because of the missing screws but curiosity got the better of me and I installed the AFM. I had to buy 4 6mmx18mm flange bolts at Home Depot to attach it to the air box since the set screws are missing from these refurbished AFMs.

My e30 seems to be idling about the same RPM as before the swap but is smooth(er) during acceleration. The car is generating a 1222 CEL when idling at stop lights but (not that I know for sure) it's possible that my ECU needs to adjust to the new AFM.