Racing Dynamics Ireland Engineering repro headers purchase issues/feedback..

[digger]

i think the customer has certain expectations that for $850 the butt welds are consistent if it was $200 then a different story, it does not cost anymore to do partial or full pen for this product as its not like weld preps are needed or the welders need to be qualified etc. So why wouldn't you do full pen, as it is a far superior joint in its resistance to cracking especially in thin material so would theoretically end up with less warranty issues and unhappy customers. it costs a little extra for the back purge but the whole reason for choosing stainless is corrosion resistance so doesn't make that much sense to not back purge.

[zaq123]

It takes some more time and most importantly skills to do it correctly. Did anyone noticed unmelted filler rod protruding inside the joint in pic #4?
Another factor to keep in mind if offering products for sale is a quality control.

I got a follow up from IE:
response direct from the builder: "There’s are two pictures where there is some sugaring but my guess is that is on the flange which is normal. The rest of them are fine, it doesn’t always pop all the way through when using filler but the dabs you see sneaking through are just regular back purged welds. If he wants aerospace consistency he will need to pay the same prices as my one-off clients which are 2000-3500"

On which I replied:

Andrew, Thanks for the follow up. Take it for what it’s worth but those welds are no good and I suggest to find a different manufacturer/welder and pick his brain if you think I have some sort of bias (I bought them to own and not to ship them back in hopes to lose money, let’s keep that in mind). Besides back purge issues, there is no proper weld penetration on most of those joints and they will surely fail in this application due to created stress concentration points. Maybe his current setting too low, travel speed to high or bad torch angle ....? There was no expectation of aerospace quality or even sanitary grade welds. However i think it is reasonable to expect the product which will last. Just trying to help...it’s a shame ...this could be a winner..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RobE30]

Curious if Andrew will follow up further. Hell, I wish IE would sell a set of headers in pieces and I could have my local fabshop weld them for me.

[02tradition]

It takes some more time and most importantly skills to do it correctly. Did anyone noticed unmelted filler rod protruding inside the joint in pic #4?
Another factor to keep in mind if offering products for sale is a quality control.

I got a follow up from IE:
response direct from the builder: "There’s are two pictures where there is some sugaring but my guess is that is on the flange which is normal. The rest of them are fine, it doesn’t always pop all the way through when using filler but the dabs you see sneaking through are just regular back purged welds. If he wants aerospace consistency he will need to pay the same prices as my one-off clients which are 2000-3500"

On which I replied:

Andrew, Thanks for the follow up. Take it for what it’s worth but those welds are no good and I suggest to find a different manufacturer/welder and pick his brain if you think I have some sort of bias (I bought them to own and not to ship them back in hopes to lose money, let’s keep that in mind). Besides back purge issues, there is no proper weld penetration on most of those joints and they will surely fail in this application due to created stress concentration points. Maybe his current setting too low, travel speed to high or bad torch angle ....? There was no expectation of aerospace quality or even sanitary grade welds. However i think it is reasonable to expect the product which will last. Just trying to help...it’s a shame ...this could be a winner..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I really wanna buy these headers but IE says its normal and you say it will crack. IE has a reputation, I want to trust what you say but I'm skeptical of some random internet guy. Do you have any hard data or qualifications to support what you are saying?

[zaq123]

I really wanna buy these headers but IE says its normal and you say it will crack. IE has a reputation, I want to trust what you say but I'm skeptical of some random internet guy. Do you have any hard data or qualifications to support what you are saying?

Not sure I’m following your request...are you asking to submit a copy of AWS cert or provide you with the certified inspection report? Some random internet guy wanted these headers based on their description, bought them, inspected them, shipped them back. He also shared pictures with the forum, free of charge. There are pictures on IE website, now there are more pictures in this post...for your viewing pleasure. You have a couple of choices here: do your your own research on proper back purged welds or......purchase a liability of CWI to evaluate these welds for you and provide you with inspection reports, prove you their qualifications. Those things will require your time or money. Until then.....these forums are all about one random internet guy reading what another internet guy wrote or looking at some random pictures from zero clue perspective

[digger]

I really wanna buy these headers but IE says its normal and you say it will crack. IE has a reputation, I want to trust what you say but I'm skeptical of some random internet guy. Do you have any hard data or qualifications to support what you are saying?

Its simple, if you're confident its ok then provide an extended warranty against cracking and stand behind your products for real

[TobyB]

Did anyone noticed unmelted filler rod protruding inside the joint in pic #4?

I thought that was a cutoff burr from cutting the tubing- either way, nothing I'd want left in there.

I can get better penetration with a MIG, but pecker waving aside,

this is not unusual historical Ireland quality. Jeff has
his ups and downs like the rest of us, but also sells to a price.
His 'suppliers' are also building things to a price.
If you talk with him personally on the phone,
you can usually sort it out.
Since Jeremy left at least 10 years ago, he's the only one I deal with when anything
goes even slightly sideways. Especially when you might get a furry camel on the phone.

t

[zaq123]

I thought that was a cutoff burr from cutting the tubing- either way, nothing I'd want left in there.

I can get better penetration with a MIG, but pecker waving aside,

this is not unusual historical Ireland quality. Jeff has
his ups and downs like the rest of us, but also sells to a price.
His 'suppliers' are also building things to a price.
If you talk with him personally on the phone,
you can usually sort it out.
Since Jeremy left at least 10 years ago, he's the only one I deal with when anything
goes even slightly sideways. Especially when you might get a furry camel on the phone.

t

It's all good besides being out of return shipping cost. I just amazed that IE is denying the issue....I don't really care at this point, was just trying to alert them of their welder's work. Looks like they don't care as well.
Let's be honest, you don't need to be an expert (not sure what Andrew from IE is ).... joints looks welded on the outside, all edges are fused together on the outside. Inside though...there is a clear defined edge = joint is not fully fused together through the entire thickness of the tubing. And no, it was no by the design (pjp argument someone was talking about earlier). if you don't weld the joint all the way through, there is no filler coming through(besides that unmelted masterpiece in the pic #4) to be shielded by the purge that they supposedly performed.
I though the random youtube vid that I've posted shows how the proper and purged joint should look on the inside ......guy in the vid did a quickie job too but I would not accept anything less than what it looked like in the vid.

[TobyB]

That's what I'm saying- you can have a decent conversation with Jeff. He will be gruff at first, until he figures out you know what you're talking about.
Then he'll listen, make it right, and there's a decent chance he'll improve his product. But you have to do it with him, on the phone.

I suspect that, for the price, that's the level of workmanship you can get domestically. Stainless isn't cheap, the services of anyone who can weld
isn't cheap (especially in California) and running a business isn't cheap. Not to excuse promising one thing and delivering another, but when you
look at it from the expense side, those headers are 'pretty cheap'.

I don't have experience with stainless under stress- because I don't trust it. But I do agree with you that leaving the weld sitting on top like that
creates a huge stress raiser in a place that's already under welding stresses (I don't see any evidence of normalization).

t
still runs a set of secondhand shorty headers

[fporro]

Oh Jeff will gruff alright, but he does come around.

About 20 years ago I drove from Malibu to their shop in Duarte with their rear sway-bar held by zip ties so he could see the issue... "it would not clear frame rails" ...

glad I did as they were still making them right there at their shop,

[zaq123]

Just looked at IE website again to see if anything changed with these headers. Well it looks like instead of improving their welding process, IE simply deleted the previous advertised line regarding their welding process. They no longer claim these headers are GTAW welded and back purged during welding. I wonder how many more people complaint about being duped. What a shame.....could be very nice product if they just used a skilled welder.
Lukely I got my money back minus the shipping. They didn't want to reimburse the shipping since they refused to acknowledge the issue....looks like they finally did (is my shipping refund check in the mail?lol)

[skitzy777]

Thanks for this write up, I was considering purchasing these but decided against. Wanted to buy a lot of stuff from IE soon like piston rings, head gasket, just a bunch of stuff to rebuild my engine, but this has changed my mind on it. Seems as though they cannot be trusted.

[zaq123]

Thanks for this write up, I was considering purchasing these but decided against. Wanted to buy a lot of stuff from IE soon like piston rings, head gasket, just a bunch of stuff to rebuild my engine, but this has changed my mind on it. Seems as though they cannot be trusted.

NP, just shared my experience. They have been around the block for awhile so I don't believe it's just a fly by company that takes your money and runs. For example I have their pistons that SkiFree pushed with MAHLE when he worked in IE and they are top notch (expected cuz made by MAHLE). I just think they cheaped out on those repro RD headers for some reason. what a shame, could be promising product.... I actually watched a dude who installed those recently. He complained about their fit and some flange leaks. Really curious how long they will hold up. My guess is under 30k miles or so until those welds would crack and develop some leaks
Here is the vid

https://youtu.be/6f_qrByTQF0

[82eye]

entirely not the same animal, but i got a set of IE long tube headers and was happy with the product. have not installed and will have a closer look now lol. they are not near as complicated nor have the pile of snakes welds though. the customer experience was pretty good too. i'm at a distance so appreciated that they wanted the order correct. fitment is gonna be another thing.

the pics are the pics on those though.

edit : i dropped about $1200 cdn on them with shipping.

[e30m3s54turbo]

I have bought products they sell for more than 10 years. I never could complain about anything!!!!