Electric steering???

[82eye]

Why is this aweful? You remove a hydraulic system, fluid leaks and maintenance. And it (marginally) pulls weight off the nose and moves it to the center of the car. The down side I see is taxing the alternator but you can also turn it off.

you remove the connection to the road and all the driving feedback that sets e30s apart from other mundane cars. it's part of the fun and reason to own one. it serves to remove the driver from the experience.

[jbontke]

you remove the connection to the road and all the driving feedback that sets e30s apart from other mundane cars. it's part of the fun and reason to own one. it serves to remove the driver from the experience.

The connection is a 1 to 1, literally. Its a solid shaft from the steering wheel to the steering rack. The motor simply aids in spinning the shaft. This isn't like some of the newer units that completely remove the physical connection. You can also switch off the assist. The kit linked earlier lets you adjust how much assistance you get. BUT I cannot comment on how it would feel as I have not driven an e30 (or another car converted) with electric assist. I would imagine you get all the road feel because the shaft from wheel to rack is still there.

[iansane]

you remove the connection to the road and all the driving feedback that sets e30s apart from other mundane cars. it's part of the fun and reason to own one. it serves to remove the driver from the experience.

I really think this 'everything new/different is terrible' is a short sighted outlook. Have you driven an e30 with any EPS system let alone all the different versions out there? I haven't. Yes I'm sure there are systems that mute this unquantifiable connection to the road you describe but I don't get this blanket condemnation of all electric power steering retrofits. The one that hoveringuy is attempting is still hydraulic. With what amounts to an infinitely adjustable assist. I have 255s on the front of one of my e30s and I drove it for years with no power steering whatsoever. When I finally added it back in did it ruin the experience? Not for me. But it did make parallel parking easier.

[Panici]

you remove the connection to the road and all the driving feedback that sets e30s apart from other mundane cars. it's part of the fun and reason to own one. it serves to remove the driver from the experience.

I think we need to make the distinction between a "steer-by-wire" system, and simply an electric power assist.

A steer-by-wire system would remove the mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the rack, much like a drive-by-wire system removes the throttle cable in favour of a potentiometer on the gas pedal and a servo motor on the throttle body.



I agree that a steer-by-wire system probably feels dead and would go against the ethos of an E30.

I personally hate anything that removes the driver connection. I WANT to control the throttle butterfly directly with my foot via a cable, even if it's not optimal for performance.


I believe the systems in this thread are discussing an electric assist (instead of a traditional belt-driven power steering pump). I've never tried one, but I imagine they wouldn't feel too far off from a traditional power steering setup.
They might even be better if you can dial back the assist for spirited driving taking you closer to a manual rack experience.

[DEV0 E30]

I'm working on the Volvo conversion. Playing with the pump here to get maximum dead-head pressure.

I was going to tag you. Looking forward to your developments in this area.

[82eye]

yeah i thought it was a drive by wire system

[MrBurgundy]

Not trying to shit on the EPS, but I've never driven a car that had EPS that offers any kind of tactility that hydraulic steering offers.. I've driven almost every euro car that has EPS

I can push my e30 to the limit because of how damn well that steering wheels tells me what the front tires are doing.

I would forfeit the 8hp to keep it the way it came.

Very curious how this system will feel when it's all done. Waiting for the report

[Panici]

Not trying to shit on the EPS, but I've never driven a car that had EPS that offers any kind of tactility that hydraulic steering offers.. I've driven almost every euro car that has EPS

I can push my e30 to the limit because of how damn well that steering wheels tells me what the front tires are doing.

I would forfeit the 8hp to keep it the way it came.

Very curious how this system will feel when it's all done. Waiting for the report

The cars you drove, were they just electric assist or did they use steer-by-wire?

Did you find the steering over-assisted and far too light?
Or just dead in general?

I've never driven anything with electric assist, just read about it. I too would never sacrifice steering feel in such an analog car.

[MrBurgundy]

Most of the cars coming through the shop have a shaft to an electric assisted steering rack.

It's just so numb. It's one feeling no matter the situation- understeering, making a u-turn, it's just all the same.

In other words, the more resistance you have, for whatever reason, it will command more assistance from the steering to keep that feeling as constant as possible.

[Panici]

In other words, the more resistance you have, for whatever reason, it will command more assistance from the steering to keep that feeling as constant as possible.

That does sound terrible.

Driving at the limit you need to feel the tires and suspension loading up through the wheel.
Depending on tire choice you may have accompanying sound feedback but I wouldn't want to rely on that alone.

[MrBurgundy]

That does sound terrible.

Driving at the limit you need to feel the tires and suspension loading up through the wheel.
Depending on tire choice you may have accompanying sound feedback but I wouldn't want to rely on that alone.

Absolutely.

My tires make 0 noise, so the steering wheel is my only source of information when it comes to grip in the front and as you said, feeling the suspension load and unload.

I mean they make hydraulic steering systems that are numb as shit.

The market today just wants numb everything.

When you get to the newer M3s and M4s, their electromechanical power steering feels pretty damn good. That just goes to show that EPS can feel good, but it's not going to be coming in your run of the mill, regular people cars and it's going to be expensive.

Which bring me back to the topic of this thread.. a prius EPS system is not going to feel good. If you wanted a nice feeling EPS, your gonna have to spend a lot of money and modify a lot of shit.

The hydraulic system is just so simple and too good. If you're gonna bring up the argument that it leaks.... idk what to tell you haha.

[hoveringuy]

Not trying to shit on the EPS, but I've never driven a car that had EPS that offers any kind of tactility that hydraulic steering offers.. I've driven almost every euro car that has EPS

I can push my e30 to the limit because of how damn well that steering wheels tells me what the front tires are doing.

I would forfeit the 8hp to keep it the way it came.

Very curious how this system will feel when it's all done. Waiting for the report

Yeah, agree.

I wouldn't go pure electric for many reasons, including the major reason that the feel is just weird, followed by I don't trust it.

The electro-hydraulic system will remove all of the issues I have with my standard steering without any real drawbacks. It's still going to be hydraulic pressure in my purple tag rack. It's going to be completely transparent.

What I'm improving is that with the N52 engine I'm screaming at the track and my PS fluid was quickly hitting 300F+. It was being churned and circulated to no end and the temps and entrained air was hard on my pump and the rack, plus it was robbing power, maybe 2-3hp. Ever seen the little socks that people a the track put over the PS reservoir? It's because they get freakin' hot and the fluid likes to burp out.

I partially fixed that with an underdrive pulley (which wasn't easy on the N52...) and lowering the pressure with a Porsche Cayman regulator bobbit. That got me down to around 250F.

I could have added another cooler, but that means more lines, more weight, more leak points, etc.

This system will be a pair of AN6 lines running all the way to the floor of the trunk and then some AN connectors. The TRW pump weights about 11lbs WITH FLUID and all of the crap I removed at the front weighs just shy of 10 so I may gain a few Ozs, but it will be moved from the front to the rear where it's helping. It will be basically idling most of the time drawing less amps than my fuel pump. Yes, there's tons of extra room around the engine now. My only belt driven accesory is the alternator.

I will also have a knob in the cockpit that lets me adjust the assist in real-time. I also have the option of making that speed dependent.

Here's another detail: it has a small wire to engergize the pump which is hardwired to the battery. The pump has a 5 second delay so it won't interfere with the starter (electronic unloader), and I'll connect that wakeup wire to the fuel pump so the pump won't come on with IGN, but will only come on with engine start.

Also, the engine is amazingly quiet without the PS pump. I didn't realize how much noise that thing makes until I removed it.

The final thing I'll add is that ALL OF THE PORSCHE CUP CARS HAVE THIS PUMP! Browse through Rennlist and you'll see the cool Porsche kids are converting to these pumps, except they're paying $1800, because Porsche...

[Panici]

...
It's going to be completely transparent.
...

Some very positive items in there.
Very interested for your feedback once you have it running & driving.

If it indeed feels identical to the existing system then it sounds worthwhile for your use case!

[digger]

Not trying to shit on the EPS, but I've never driven a car that had EPS that offers any kind of tactility that hydraulic steering offers.. I've driven almost every euro car that has EPS

I can push my e30 to the limit because of how damn well that steering wheels tells me what the front tires are doing.

I would forfeit the 8hp to keep it the way it came.

Very curious how this system will feel when it's all done. Waiting for the report

The 8hp going to be when the wheel is turned a bunch where maximising power is not needed anyway. There is no way the pump consumes 8hp when going straight/ish unless it's shot

[MrBurgundy]

The 8hp going to be when the wheel is turned a bunch where maximising power is not needed anyway. There is no way the pump consumes 8hp when going straight/ish unless it's shot

I figured that, I was just using the OPs figure he said he tested himself, which I'm curious as to how that was done