I think my miata ruined me.

[BillBrasky]

I have all of the different models of e30's and I know what you're talking about. I love my 325ix, but there really is no reason to own one if you don't have to deal with snow. Remember that this was not designed as an AWD car from scratch. It was a RWD converted to AWD design, so it doesn't have a lot of the dry handling feel and characteristics of a properly set up AWD system. On dry pavement, even modified, they're boring as shit and the steering feels like a truck. However, if you've ever driven one in the snow that's properly maintained and has good snow tires (Nokian Haakkkkkaappllitttaaas), then you'll understand the feeling some of us have for them. The weight balance, viscous LSD's, steering, gear ratios all seem to come together brilliantly and nothing else can keep up. Driving it in the snow is just as much fun as my other e30's are on the track.































Having said all of that, FUCK SNOW!

[Julien]

Judging by the specs given on this sheet (the only ix alignment specs I could find) the only spec that is far from what it is on a 2wd car is the dramatically lower caster. They actually call for slightly more negative camber vs an 'i'. Is sluggish steering response just a matter of weight distribution* and a not-so-sporting steering rack? perhaps more chassis flex?



*I could not find ix specific weight distribution specs

Interesting find! it makes sense that it could be caster as the strut itself pivots at a different angle than a rwd strut. I wonder if offset bushings + camber/caster plates maxed out will get me in the ballpark of a rwd e30

[F34R]

i think a 325ix is the wrong e30 to replace the feel of a miata. Might be why you are having issues. Get a lighter more rev happy model (318) and it'll bring you closer to what you were used to.

this!^^^^^^

[Julien]

this!^^^^^^

I've had a 324td touring which was fun. It's not the weight or motor (Within reason) y'all

[varg]

Interesting find! it makes sense that it could be caster as the strut itself pivots at a different angle than a rwd strut. I wonder if offset bushings + camber/caster plates maxed out will get me in the ballpark of a rwd e30

Regular E30 'i' caster specs, from what I've seen, are 8.75 degrees +-0.05. I am unable to find a good (official) source of E30 M3 caster specs, but I saw 9 degrees of caster mentioned in multiple places on S14.net. The change in caster between offset and centered CABs cannot be very large, if these specs are to be believed. I am assuming all specs are with the wheel centered, instead of at a given steering angle like in the Bentley manual, which does not seem to cover 'M' or 'ix' models.

Based on pictures, the ix control arms have a longer rear 'arm' for lack of a better term, so the offset CABs would make an even smaller change of angle at the inner ball joint vs that with the standard E30 control arm. I could not compare both arms of the ix control arm to that of the 'i' very well through images, but it appears the outer arm is shorter on the ix unit, which would make the change in position at the outer ball joint even smaller still. Based on this, I think the offset CABs may make a very small difference in caster on an ix, maybe not even a readily noticeable one. It certainly won't make the 1.1-2.1 degree 'ix' caster spec I found any decent percentage closer to the 8.75 degree 'i' spec. A custom control arm would be necessary. More caster, more self-centering tendency, higher steering effort and greater camber change while turning. Would it positively affect steering feel and response? You'd have to try it to find out I guess. I think that stiffer sidewalls and more roll resistance would sharpen handling much more cost effectively, a faster steering rack might be nice too, but I don't know what the situation is there for the ix.

Hopefully someone with good, official alignment specs for all E30 models can chime in. A side by side comparison of 'i' and 'ix' control arms would be nice too.

[325issguy]

Sucks that you can't use an e36 rack in the ix... has anyone thought of attempting to swap the internals from a z3 or e36 rack? I wonder if it could be done.

[stonea]

Nope internals are different. You're basically stuck with the rack for now. I've talked about some companies manufacturing quick ratio internals we could swap over, but I haven't found anyone who will do it fore a reasonable price or reasonable group buy.

[mr2peak]

2nd gen MR2 should get you plenty of room. Turbo or N/A depending on budget. 2/3rds or a 2jz in a midengined platform is fun.

[Cabriolet]

I just drove a friend's 3rd gen miata a few weeks ago. i've owned 6 e30s, including an m3. the miata is a piece of shit. the wonky steering wheel angle, the lack of road feel but overly hard steering. the stupid dials on the dash with 0 at the bottom instead of on the 9-oclock abd the then really wheel placement of the shift lever. it's just a crappy small car. i dont get the love for them. i let the guy drive my e30 and the only thing he said after is "wow" "now i know why you hate on my car"

[Exodus_2pt0]

I just drove a friend's 3rd gen miata a few weeks ago.

Drove a friends 3rd gen Miata.

Friends 3rd gen.

3rd gen

There's your problem.

Stolen from another forum:

I read somewhere the NA is built by engineers. The NB is built by engineers with bean counters looking over their shoulder. The NC is built by bean counters.

[graveshaker]

Lol third gen miata. Third gen miata is like God Father III, it should have never been made.

[Julien]

2nd gen MR2 should get you plenty of room. Turbo or N/A depending on budget. 2/3rds or a 2jz in a midengined platform is fun.

Those are very fun, a buddy of mine has had a few i've helped him with.

[jeffnhiscars]

I just drove a friend's 3rd gen miata a few weeks ago. i've owned 6 e30s, including an m3. the miata is a piece of shit. the wonky steering wheel angle, the lack of road feel but overly hard steering. the stupid dials on the dash with 0 at the bottom instead of on the 9-oclock abd the then really wheel placement of the shift lever. it's just a crappy small car. i dont get the love for them. i let the guy drive my e30 and the only thing he said after is "wow" "now i know why you hate on my car"

Stop beating around the bush and tell us what you really think of a Miata ;)

Julien I have a fix for getting all 6'6" of you into the Miata. At the BMW factory I saw this robot arm that maneuvered seats into an X5. Would be perfect and if course if the top was down we could just lower you in with an engine hoist.

Problem solved !!

[nando]

yeah I'm not a fan of Miatas either. I mean I get it - they have that "go kart" feel. But really, if you want that you could just race go karts - which are probably way faster than a Miata anyway, and not have to live with a clown car as a DD. :p

The people responding to this thread are mostly trying to be helpful but we're sort of reinventing the wheel here. This stuff is already known in the ix community and it's all been done before. This is going to be long - sorry for that!

There was a claim that the E30 ix AWD was just shoehorned onto the E30 and not engineered as a complete solution. This is completely false, and understates how much of the car was actually reengineered specifically for AWD.

BMW had been working on AWD for some time - remember, the ix came out in 1985, the E30 was only a few years old at that point. A project like this would have taken considerable time, it wasn't thrown together in 6 months - that suggests they knew they wanted to build an AWD version before the 1st E30 even rolled off the assembly line. Supposedly, the M3 was originally going to be AWD for rally, but racing series rule changes ended that game so we ended up with the ix and a RWD M3 instead.

It would be easier to list the parts that are the same, than list all the parts that are different; even the chassis itself has been tweaked considerably. Details down to trim pieces and wiring are different where you wouldn't expect them to be.

I'd like to point out that the basic layout in the E30 ix is the same layout they have used in every AWD BMW since - including cars that were designed from scratch as AWD-only. The main differences have been the type of locking mechanism in the transfercase, but they all have the same principles, from the torque split to the design of the front diff/oil pan. It has definitely proven itself as a time-tested design.

The ix drivetrain is about 185lbs extra weight - most of that is low and near the center of the car. Up front, the heaviest part is probably the strut housings. they are ridiculously heavy. the diff adds some weight, but the ix has an aluminum subframe instead of the stamped steel version. Also it doesn't have the issue of the oil pan hanging way down in front of the steering rack. ;)

The weight distribution is similar to the RWD cars. it might be 1% different. it's not anything like an Audi or a Subaru.

I've driven one stock ix other than mine and it did feel like a truck. But it was a beat down POS with 226k and totally worn out everything. my ix doesn't feel anything like that. I'd say if you drove one that felt like a truck, it probably needed some help.

Let's start with the suspension. I think you ended up just throwing some random springs on correct? I mean you picked them out based on the drop, but they weren't designed for an ix specifically. And even ix H&R springs weren't really "designed" for an ix.

There's some history here - back in the late 90's, a guy in the PNW with a red ix contacted H&R here in Bellingham about a suspension setup for the ix (I can't remember his name, but that car is long since parted out due to rust). They ended up trying some off the shelf springs and came up with the "ix" kit. Which is really, if I remember correctly, an OE Sport front spring and a cabrio rear spring. Yeah, no magic sauce here - just what worked best that they had already produced. It works OK for a DD but I wouldn't expect sharp handling out of it. It's just too soft and the center of gravity is too high.

I presume you didn't go that route because they don't lower it much, which is true. But now you've coupled it with Bilsteins which weren't meant for lowering, and have basically zero travel now, unless you shortened the bump stops. Still, not great for handling.

You can pay to have them shortened and revalved. But I did that and it sucked. It was expensive, it took forever, and the ride was terrible. Finally, one exploded after only a couple months. Konis are the way to go here - get the race inserts for the front if you shorten the housings. Ride quality will be 10x better than revalved Bilsteins and the price is about the same anyway.

I'm not saying you need a super stiff coilover setup that will rattle your brains out, but it wouldn't take much to improve on drop in springs.

I'm assuming you also have 25 year old stock upper shock mounts (guessing you didn't replace them - they're expensive as fuck). They seem hard/stiff when you have them in your hand, but if you actually watch them as you put the weight of the car on the front suspension, you can see that them actually stretch and act almost like a spring - they stretch at least 1/2" just setting the car down! This adds to that "wallowing" feel but helps cushion the suspension when driving on rutted ice roads or something.

Camber plates will do a whole lot more than give you better geometry - they remove this extra "spring" from the front suspension. the difference is immediate and noticeable, the front end becomes immediately responsive.

However, even the GC camber plates, as ingenious as they are, add to the stack height a bit. To keep any resemblance of suspension travel requires shortened strut housings and the Koni race inserts. I don't even know if they make an upper hat for drop in springs - it wouldn't be a good idea anyway, IMO. the springs will rub on the wheelhouse with maximum camber/caster.

Forget about the control arms. The are different, but not for the reason you think. it has more to do with the location of the steering rack on the strut than anything. ix is the only part that will fit.

Type of tires? All seasons? Whatever random 15" tires they sell these days? (I honestly don't know, except that tire selection for 15" wheels sucks now). This is a contributing factor. the ix benefits from a stiffer sidewall, both due to the geometry and weight of the car. big, soft sidewalls will roll over and contribute to overheating the outsides of the front tires.

now to the geometry. stock ix caster is indeed around 1.5-2 degrees. with M3 offset bushings, I was around 2.5 degrees I think. The stock caster wasn't done by accident - it was done to optimize everything for the most traction & braking. Stock camber is similar to a RWD E30.

with the camber plates, you will want to of course maximize caster. But you are compromising something that is not obvious - the reason for the near vertical front struts is because the ix is optimized for reduced squat under acceleration, and reduced dive under braking. The ix uses the exact same brakes as a 325i, weighs more, but still brakes in a shorter distance - partly due to the 15" tires, but also because of the optimized geometry. But I'd say if you get 3-3.5 degrees of caster, you aren't going to compromise that much traction and braking.

Camber - on the street I wouldn't run it too high unless you want to eat tires, about -2 degrees seems to work. If you are autoxing or tracking, you will want as much static camber as possible. Because we are limited in caster, you don't get much dynamic camber on the outside wheel. If you take temperatures with a pyrometer you will find that the outsides of the front tires will overheat. -3 degrees or more should result in fairly even temperatures across the tire.

possibly you could upgrade the swaybars. I don't think I'd go for a huge rear bar without doing something for the front. There's really nothing available but it's not impossible. I tried to fit an E46 bar up front, and it's close, but it has a bend that's a little wrong and it ended up hitting the subframe. With some modifications it could work, and they are cheap. This is on my to-do list.

The steering rack is considerably more problematic. really, you can just learn to live with it - it's the same rate as the RWD rack. it's not tight like an E36 M3, but it's liveable. a smaller diameter steering wheel will help with that "bus" feeling. Otherwise, an E46 xi rack swap is possible, but requires modifications to the subframe, engine mounts, and strut housings. This is also on my to-do lost.

Forget about removing all understeer. You can definitely reduce it to a manageable amount, but I went down that path and I realized it actually makes the car unpredictable, if not dangerous. instead of being able to rotate the car and control it, you end up suddenly spinning. this is made worse by the rear suspension of the E30. It's an AWD car and the goal should be fairly neutral steering which is definitely achievable.

Really you have to think of it differently and come from another angle - the driving line will be different from a RWD car, and where you apply the throttle/brakes is different as well. Stop driving it like a RWD E30 and drive it like an ix and it will reward you. I never had a problem keeping up with or even passing cars that are far superior on paper.

The final element missing here is power. A stock M20 just isn't enough IMO. The ix is a little heavier, and it has more drivetrain loss. BMW tried to make up for it by installing a shorter gear ratio, but it really needs another 50hp to be "fun". 300whp should be a blast but it can be fun with a lot less than that. My M20 is around 210-220 at the crank, it's not fast but it's enough to get squirrely.

the ix drivetrain, BTW, will hold up just fine. The front driveshaft splines can be extended into the transfercase, and the proper grease used to prolong their life (I haven't had a problem with it in years). The front diff probably won't like being drag raced all the time with high levels of torque, but that's not too hard to avoid (I've done hundreds of hard launches with mine though, no issues). The transfercase itself is designed for about twice as much torque as the M20 puts out stock. Probably the main causes of failure are running it out of oil and improper towing. The rest of the drivetrain is the same as any other E30 and is plenty stout.

TL,DR ;)

[graveshaker]

I'm sure it's some good stuff in there but I ain't reading it.