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Which engine would you choose for a swap?

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    Originally posted by Andrew325is View Post
    That's awesome! Waganstyle, that engine is interesting. Is it from an S2000? Are the new poll options selectable? I can't tell.
    Photo is my s2000. Installing a Chevy LSX or Honda engine in a e30 is a marvelous thing. DO WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY. No reason to care too much about the ancient bmw powertrain options when you can choose to have bald eagles in your engine bay or vtec unicorn farts. I’ve driven a e30m3 and it was quaint. But a s14 engine is shit compared to a f20c or a k24 or a lsx
    OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

    Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



    Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

    Comment


      Originally posted by Wanganstyle View Post
      Photo is my s2000. Installing a Chevy LSX or Honda engine in a e30 is a marvelous thing. DO WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY. No reason to care too much about the ancient bmw powertrain options when you can choose to have bald eagles in your engine bay or vtec unicorn farts. I’ve driven a e30m3 and it was quaint. But a s14 engine is shit compared to a f20c or a k24 or a lsx
      Yes, do whatever makes you happy.

      There is a good reason to care about an ancient power train, i'd argue.

      It's a huge part of the driving experience having a period/manufacture correct engine in a classic car.

      Over the past 10 years of owning e30s, I could never bring myself to take out an m20 and replace it with a 24v. An m20 just feel so right in there.


      Originally posted by wholepailofwater
      Q
      :devil:


      WTB: Dove Grey e36 Front Door Panels (2 door)

      Comment


        Originally posted by MrBurgundy View Post
        Yes, do whatever makes you happy. There is a good reason to care about an ancient power train, i'd argue. It's a huge part of the driving experience having a period/manufacture correct engine in a classic car. Over the past 10 years of owning e30s, I could never bring myself to take out an m20 and replace it with a 24v. An m20 just feel so right in there.
        Addiction to god’s chariot since 2000 when I drove my first bmw; a e30m. I’ve driven e30m s14, m20 in eta, and raced wheel to wheel with m2025i, hardy and beck 327s, m52b28, s52b32, m54b28 Honestly the best balanced e30 was the m54b28 aluminum block engine because its weight was same as the m20. More power is a good thing If going for style though a m20 with long tube headers looks fantastic
        OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

        Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



        Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

        Comment


          Originally posted by Wanganstyle View Post
          Hate = envy of the factory 9200rpm. :)
          why rev 9200 when you can get the job done with 6000....
          89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

          new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

          Comment


            Wanganstyle, do you mean M52TUb28? Because there is no M54b28 unless of course you made one combing M52TU and M54 bits. S14 is shit... thats a really interesting opinion.
            Plug and Play Wiring Harness Adapters for S54, S50, M54 and more.

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              Originally posted by digger View Post
              why rev 9200 when you can get the job done with 6000....
              If using that logic you would install A m73b54; would destroy anything at 1500rpm. A Chevy Lsx does work also at low rpm even better than a m73 v12 or any bmw power unit
              Originally posted by Andrew325is View Post
              Wanganstyle, do you mean M52TUb28? Because there is no M54b28 unless of course you made one combing M52TU and M54 bits. “S14 is shit”... that’s a really interesting opinion.
              Opinions are like assholes. And the statement was intentionally made to irritate purists Drive a stock s14, drive a stock f20c. The s14 is shit in comparison; and yes it’s because of a decade of modern technology. I made my own m54b28 obd1 alu block single vanos. Because I could
              OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

              Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



              Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

              Comment


                This thread might as well have been titled "What girl would you choose" - to each their own. You like big booty bitches, get yourself an m30B35. You like chicks with a white girl booty, get yourself an s14. You like a basic bitch, you get a m/s5x. Some of you have the asian fever, so get your 2jz on. :)
                Originally posted by Matt-B
                hey does anyone know anyone who gets upset and makes electronics?

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Wanganstyle View Post
                  If using that logic you would install A m73b54; would destroy anything at 1500rpm. A Chevy Lsx does work also at low rpm even better than a m73 v12 or any bmw power unit Opinions are like assholes. And the statement was intentionally made to irritate purists Drive a stock s14, drive a stock f20c. The s14 is shit in comparison; and yes it’s because of a decade of modern technology. I made my own m54b28 obd1 alu block single vanos. Because I could
                  If the goal is simply the most power or torque then sure just swap in a big engine.

                  personally I'd want a hp that the chassis can handle comfortably without needing to modify everything yet also not need to be wound up to get any power. The f20 is too gutless to be worth it imo.

                  The stock s14 in some variants is actually just as efficient as as stock f20c in terms of VE. Honda have always needed more revs the the Europeans to achieve the same power. Even with two cam profiles still has no torque for the size. Sure they can make big power with mods but isn't that part of the point of the swap to put something in there that's alot better

                  89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                  new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by digger View Post
                    no torque for the size
                    S14B20 - 1,990cc - 189bhp/155lbft @6,900rpm/4,900rpm
                    F20C - 1,997cc - 234bhp/155lbft @8,300rpm/7,500rpm

                    77.8 vs 77.6lbft/L
                    No discernible difference (<1%)

                    S14B23 - 2,302cc - 212bhp/170lbft @6,750rpm/4,600rpm
                    F22C - 2,157cc - 237bhp/162lbft @7,800rpm/6,500rpm

                    73.8 vs 75.1lbft/L
                    Barely discernible difference (1.7%) but if you want to count it, advantage F22C.

                    In the end, specific torque is about the same between the two
                    As for RPM, if you select your final drive gearing for the application it doesn't really make a difference, aside from bragging rights maybe.
                    @turbovarg
                    '91 318is, M20B25, T3/T04E 60 trim (15psi), megasquirt, coilovers, Z3 rack, cold AC
                    [b u i l d]
                    [Car of the month: April 2018]

                    0c8b7c9527af628a346878feb14bf757

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by varg View Post

                      S14B20 - 1,990cc - 189bhp/155lbft @6,900rpm/4,900rpm
                      F20C - 1,997cc - 234bhp/155lbft @8,300rpm/7,500rpm

                      77.8 vs 77.6lbft/L
                      No discernible difference (<1%)

                      S14B23 - 2,302cc - 212bhp/170lbft @6,750rpm/4,600rpm
                      F22C - 2,157cc - 237bhp/162lbft @7,800rpm/6,500rpm

                      73.8 vs 75.1lbft/L
                      Barely discernible difference (1.7%) but if you want to count it, advantage F22C.

                      In the end, specific torque is about the same between the two
                      As for RPM, if you select your final drive gearing for the application it doesn't really make a difference, aside from bragging rights maybe.

                      that's basically what i said, the S14 makes just about as good VE. I never said the S14 was good I was addressing Wanganstyle comment.

                      The S14 has an excuse though, its from early/mid 80's and hopeless engine management, single cam profile. Compare the stuff from same ERA as F20C. BMW have stuff in the 80s for numbers on their performance stuff

                      the shape of the power curve matters as well, you cant look at the peak number and say you can gear it just as well as most drive trains dont have CVT. If you compare a normalized power curve then you start to be able to compare different engines with a similar peak number.
                      Last edited by digger; 08-25-2019, 03:47 PM.
                      89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                      new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by digger View Post


                        that's basically what i said, the S14 makes just about as good VE. I never said the S14 was good I was addressing Wanganstyle comment.

                        The S14 has an excuse though, its from early/mid 80's and hopeless engine management, single cam profile. Compare the stuff from same ERA as F20C. BMW have stuff in the 80s for numbers

                        the shape of the power curve matters as well, you cant look at the peak number and say you can gear it just as well as most drive trains dont have CVT. If you compare a normalized power curve then you start to be able to compare different engines with a similar peak number.
                        Sorry for any confusion, but I quoted what I specifically meant to address, which is "no torque for the size". 77lbft/L is far from that, it's actually damn good, and the Honda motor compares very favorably with the S14, making similar specific torque but annihilating it in specific power. 77lbft/L is more specific torque than an M20B25, M54B30... LS1 even! Proof that the no torque Honda meme doesn't apply to an F20 at least, because if that Honda motor was 5.7L it would be making more torque than a Camaro.
                        @turbovarg
                        '91 318is, M20B25, T3/T04E 60 trim (15psi), megasquirt, coilovers, Z3 rack, cold AC
                        [b u i l d]
                        [Car of the month: April 2018]

                        0c8b7c9527af628a346878feb14bf757

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by varg View Post

                          Sorry for any confusion, but I quoted what I specifically meant to address, which is "no torque for the size". 77lbft/L is far from that, it's actually damn good, and the Honda motor compares very favorably with the S14, making similar specific torque but annihilating it in specific power. 77lbft/L is more specific torque than an M20B25, M54B30... LS1 even! Proof that the no torque Honda meme doesn't apply to an F20 at least, because if that Honda motor was 5.7L it would be making more torque than a Camaro.
                          ok cherry pick engines run of mill the engines why dont you ;) . yes it compares favourably to an engine from mid 80's honda must be proud. its not any better than a N52 executive style engine

                          btw S54 82-84lbft/L ~10% more.....
                          89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

                          new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

                          Comment


                            Not cherrypicking at all, M20, M54 and LS1 are the first 3 engines I thought made sense in this context considering OP's original poll and thread discussion.

                            The S54 is a performance dynamo, but unfortunately loses a lot of favorability once its weight and reputation due to the TSB are taken into account. Minus the S14, all other motors I mentioned are known for last hundreds of thousands of miles aside from cases of extreme neglect. It still somehow loses out in specific power output to the F20 series despite the torque.
                            @turbovarg
                            '91 318is, M20B25, T3/T04E 60 trim (15psi), megasquirt, coilovers, Z3 rack, cold AC
                            [b u i l d]
                            [Car of the month: April 2018]

                            0c8b7c9527af628a346878feb14bf757

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by varg View Post
                              Not cherrypicking at all, M20, M54 and LS1 are the first 3 engines I thought made sense in this context considering OP's original poll and thread discussion. The S54 is a performance dynamo, but unfortunately loses a lot of favorability once its weight and reputation due to the TSB are taken into account. Minus the S14, all other motors I mentioned are known for last hundreds of thousands of miles aside from cases of extreme neglect. It still somehow loses out in specific power output to the F20 series despite the torque.
                              The f20c is also bulletproof and maintenance free. For the last 52hrs of time attack use my f20c has had one valve adjustment (and it was still within spec). First factory service valve adjustment is at 105k miles; change the oil religiously after every event thats it. There is an advantage to more rpms with the same power; more range each gear; its a lot easier to pass someone when they are shifting and you can just keep it wot.
                              OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

                              Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



                              Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Wanganstyle View Post
                                The f20c is also bulletproof and maintenance free. For the last 52hrs of time attack use my f20c has had one valve adjustment (and it was still within spec). First factory service valve adjustment is at 105k miles; change the oil religiously after every event thats it. There is an advantage to more rpms with the same power; more range each gear; its a lot easier to pass someone when they are shifting and you can just keep it wot.
                                They do appear to be fun, easy to own engines, but maintenance free they are not. Still find it odd that Honda continued with laah adjustments as part of regular maintenance until very recently or possibly presently.

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