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How bad new car visibility has gotten: E30 vs F30 edition

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    How bad new car visibility has gotten: E30 vs F30 edition

    Parked next to an F30 sedan while getting lunch at work one day and noticed the stark contrast in outward visibility between the F30 and E30. Made the following visual to highlight the difference. F30 windows are be a lot higher and vertically narrower, making parking and reversing harder, especially in tight spaces.

    Click image for larger versionName:	E30 vs new BMW.JPGViews:	0Size:	80.8 KBID:	9903735

    #2
    The real problem that creates this problem is just in frame to the right.

    Also examine the side mirror to rear quarter relationship and the trunk height.

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      #3
      I have an e92 as well as my e30, and the visibility is good. Sure - it doesn't have the super thin A-pillars of the e30, but it's not bad.

      Generally though, the visibility out of modern cars is terrible. My wife's Hyundai is bad, and try driving a new Mazda 3 hatch! BMW still do a good job of balancing safety and visibility.

      I agree with rogue toaster though - I nearly get mowed down all the time in either my e30 or e92 by giant SUVs where my roof is lower than the side window sill - especially if they have a lift kit.
      Last edited by lukeADE335i; 02-05-2020, 03:02 PM.
      My e30: OEM+ with M30B35

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        #4
        My mom has a newer Jetta. I always thought back up cameras were a ridiculous idea, mainly for people who don't know how to drive, and therefore have trouble backing up their cars without hitting anything. Then I drove my mom's car once, and had to reverse it out of the garage. Backup cameras are now mandatory equipment on new cars, and it's obvious now why that is - they're impossible to see out of.
        2000 A4 1.8TQ | 1988 325is | 1976 280Z | 1953 CJ3B

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          #5
          Originally posted by roguetoaster View Post
          The real problem that creates this problem is just in frame to the right.

          Also examine the side mirror to rear quarter relationship and the trunk height.
          If you're referring to the black frame that surrounds the rear glass (not sure if you are), then yes, that's one of the contributors. Can't remember if that black frame surrounds the side windows, but I know on modern cars its on the front and back. The main thing for the rear though is the trunk height. Sure it gives extra cargo space, but I prefer extra glass. I notice that this trend of shrinking rear visibility began on the 3 series with the E36. Back then it was probably due to the new Z-axle suspension that they used.

          I did not notice the side mirror and trunk height thing. My eyes normally fixate on the windows. Good eye!

          Originally posted by lukeADE335i
          I have an e92 as well as my e30, and the visibility is good. Sure - it doesn't have the super thin A-pillars of the e30, but it's not bad.

          Generally though, the visibility out of modern cars is terrible. My wife's Hyundai is bad, and try driving a new Mazda 3 hatch! BMW still do a good job of balancing safety and visibility.

          If parking worries you, get the one with the 360 camera :)
          I have an E46, and the front visibility is good, the side visibility is okay and the rear visibility is bad but not terrible.

          The main thing that concerns me with 360 cameras on cars is the long-term (20-30 year) reliability/durability and ease of maintenance of such a system. With all of the other complicated electronics that are integrated into modern cars (especially modern German cars), I am concerned that I will have to shell out thousands to repair things like the rear view camera just to be able to easily see out of my car again if it ever breaks. This is one of the reasons I brought an E30; less of "oh we'll use electronics to fix this issue created by government regulations" and also less government regulations to deal with in general. That and the E30 is the smallest BMW that has all of the essential creature comforts (AC, heat, power steering, power windows, automatic transmission, torquey I6 engine); just the perfect balance of tech while feeling mostly analog.

          I agree with you though that BMW is one of the better manufacturers when it comes to balancing safety and visibility.
          Last edited by ZeKahr; 02-05-2020, 03:38 PM.

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            #6
            No, the item I was referring to is the truck next to the E30.

            Also, E36 rear vis has nothing to do with rear suspension, and everything to do with exterior design choices.

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              #7
              Thats a 3-series next to the E30??? I thought that was a 7-series... damn porkers
              Simon
              Current Cars:
              -1986 BMW 325e & 1968 Datsun Roadster 2000
              Previous Car Count : 21 ... and climbing...

              Make R3V Great Again -2020

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                #8
                My F31 is monstrous compared to my E30. The F31 weighs 1200 pounds more. The back of the F31 is nearly impossible to see out of without the backup camera.

                The funny and sad part is the interior of the E30 trunk is actually wider due to the lack of excessive interior panels. I can fit my E-Z up 10x10 tent across the trunk of my E30. I cannot fit in across the trunk of the F31. I actually have to fold down a rear seat in the F31 to make it fit.
                Last edited by mike.bmw; 02-06-2020, 11:33 AM.

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                  #9
                  It doesn't really matter because everyone is looking at a screen anyway. Just mount a laptop on the dash like a Tesla.

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                    #10
                    pretty soon the grill will encompass the entire front of the car. looking through it should give more visibility........
                    Marshall
                    M2 build thread
                    http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/1035...es-m2-madness/

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by packratbimmer View Post
                      It doesn't really matter because everyone is looking at a screen anyway. Just mount a laptop on the dash like a Tesla.
                      May as well, I'm already not ever going to be interest in buying one so it's not like having a god-awful interior with the worst interface known to mankind is going to ruin it for me.

                      Seriously, touch screens a control interface in cars is the worst idea to hit the car world since putting low profile tires on trucks.
                      @turbovarg
                      '91 318is, M20B25, T3/T04E 60 trim (15psi), megasquirt, coilovers, Z3 rack, cold AC
                      [b u i l d]
                      [Car of the month: April 2018]

                      0c8b7c9527af628a346878feb14bf757

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by 2mAn View Post
                        Thats a 3-series next to the E30??? I thought that was a 7-series... damn porkers
                        That's no 3-series, it's a space station..

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by varg View Post

                          May as well, I'm already not ever going to be interest in buying one so it's not like having a god-awful interior with the worst interface known to mankind is going to ruin it for me.

                          Seriously, touch screens a control interface in cars is the worst idea to hit the car world since putting low profile tires on trucks.
                          I think we will be eventually just plugging a cord into the back of our heads - or will our brains be hooked up wirelessly?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by lukeADE335i View Post
                            I have an e92 as well as my e30, and the visibility is good. Sure - it doesn't have the super thin A-pillars of the e30, but it's not bad.

                            Generally though, the visibility out of modern cars is terrible. My wife's Hyundai is bad, and try driving a new Mazda 3 hatch! BMW still do a good job of balancing safety and visibility.

                            I agree with rogue toaster though - I nearly get mowed down all the time in either my e30 or e92 by giant SUVs where my roof is lower than the side window sill - especially if they have a lift kit.
                            First time driving my e30 after lowering and manual swap I almost got run off the road by a rape van who couldn't space themselves correctly in traffic.
                            85% of the time i have no idea what I'm doing

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